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Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
Hi all,

I've posted a summary of my progress on the bundle uploading feature for Agora Octave: http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-8/

Any feedback - questions, comments, feature suggestions, etc - would be appreciated!

-Wendy
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Juan Pablo Carbajal
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've posted a summary of my progress on the bundle uploading feature for
> Agora Octave: http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-8/
>
> Any feedback - questions, comments, feature suggestions, etc - would be
> appreciated!
>
> -Wendy

Wendy thank you for your periodic updates!

I am glad you are managing to handle the difficulties that appear.

Regarding the visualization of the contents of a Bundle. I think that
showing the list of files would be enough (avoiding unpacking, but
just listing the content), anyways I respect your design decision.
Would it be possible to get all the structure collapsed by default and
if the user wants to see the details of the file their can expand it?
Otherwise it is quite a cumbersome overview of the bundles (some of
them can have hundreds of files!).

Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
think wee need more basic functionality before this. For example I
think a good working situation would be to allow for the upload of a
new version of the bundle (so a completely new zip file), but not
editing the internals and to be able to see in your user account which
bundles you have uploaded. In this regard, adding more functionality
is for me (stress on the "me") secondary. Most important would be the
rating/feedback functionality. Nowadays we use the feature request
forum (https://sourceforge.net/p/octave/feature-requests/) and there
is always ping-pong of suggestions and new versions. This is for me of
utter importance because that is the first contact with developers or
people that have more experience coding for Octave.

Also, even before the "editing the internal of the bundle"
functionality, I would prioritize on the licensing part. That is,
offering the uploaders the possibility to add license files to their
bundles, chosen from a predefined list. Carnë has written code to do
this and also as the collection of "accepted" licenses in the folder
admin of Octave Forge.


Thank you again for your efforts and results!


M. Sc. Juan Pablo Carbajal
-----
PhD Student
University of Zürich
http://ailab.ifi.uzh.ch/carbajal/
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Carnë Draug-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu
On 9 October 2012 20:06, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've posted a summary of my progress on the bundle uploading feature for
> Agora Octave: http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-8/
>
> Any feedback - questions, comments, feature suggestions, etc - would be
> appreciated!

> The problem with this technique is that there doesn't appear to be a way
> to make the line numbers hyperlinks. One way around this is to use
> Javascript to make the line itself a hyperlink, so that when you click
> anywhere on a line of code you're taken to the relevant anchor. Of course,
> this still requires Javascript, so I don't know if it's really a better solution.
> It's also a bit harder to style. The current implementation (using Javascript
> to display the line numbers) should suffice for now, so I'm going to table
> this issue and only come back to it if it turns out there's a major problem
> with the current method.

You may want to take a look at how it's done in launchpad
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/view/head:/apport/source_bzr.py
The line numbers have links, and you can copy and paste without
problem. I don't know the details of their solution but it works. And
it's free under AGPL.

> The idea is that you should be able to [...]. If you upload an archive, then
> it should be unpacked on the server, and the contents of the archive
> should be restored with their original filenames and directory structure,
> and shown on the page with syntax highlighting (if possible).

I don't think this was actually part of the original design.

On 9 October 2012 21:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)"

I second Juan that there's more important things and more: do NOT
implement this. After a release is made, it should not be changed.
What would happen if we went back, pulled down the 3.6.0 sources,
fixed a bug and released it again with the same version number? The
whole version system becomes useless.

On 9 October 2012 21:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For example I
> think a good working situation would be to allow for the upload of a
> new version of the bundle (so a completely new zip file), but not
> editing the internals and to be able to see in your user account which
> bundles you have uploaded.

Again, I agree with Juan. And this was also part of the original
discussion at OctConf, and the design of Agora. Quoting the section
about bundles: "They will be associated with a specific user, the
uploader, who is able to release new versions. Versioning will be
automatic and the simplest possible: a single number incrementing with
each new upload. Old versions will be made available for download in
the same style as arXiv (see the submission history on an entry for an
example)." The link on the text was for http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1440

Carnë
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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu

On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:

> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
> think wee need more basic functionality before this.

Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
would more appropriate.

That's just me though ...

c.
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Carnë Draug-2
On 9 October 2012 23:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>> think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>
> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
> would more appropriate.
>
> That's just me though ...

It's not just you, you are right. This functionality is not desirable
at all. It's just making easier for all octave programmers that call
themselves non-programmers to shoot themselves on the foot.

Carnë
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Carnë Draug-2
You forgot to include the mailing list

On 12 October 2012 23:44, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who replied. One of the reasons I wanted feedback is
> because the feature specifications I've been given for Agora are not always
> complete, and so I have to do quite a bit of creative interpretation
> (sometimes, misinterpretation) from time to time. At times, this can result
> in me making design decisions that are not what is best for the Octave
> community, and since I'm not really part of the Octave community myself, I
> don't always realise this. So please, feel free to question any decision I
> make that you don't feel comfortable with -- I just want to make Agora
> useful for the community.
>
> In any case, a lot of good points were brought up, and I'm going to do my
> best to address them all now:
>
> On 9 October 2012 15:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding the visualization of the contents of a Bundle. I think that
>> showing the list of files would be enough (avoiding unpacking, but
>> just listing the content), anyways I respect your design decision.
>> Would it be possible to get all the structure collapsed by default and
>> if the user wants to see the details of the file their can expand it?
>> Otherwise it is quite a cumbersome overview of the bundles (some of
>> them can have hundreds of files!).
>
>
> This sounds much better. I will definitely do this.
>
> On 9 October 2012 15:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>> think wee need more basic functionality before this. For example I
>> think a good working situation would be to allow for the upload of a
>> new version of the bundle (so a completely new zip file), but not
>> editing the internals and to be able to see in your user account which
>> bundles you have uploaded. In this regard, adding more functionality
>> is for me (stress on the "me") secondary. Most important would be the
>> rating/feedback functionality. Nowadays we use the feature request
>> forum (https://sourceforge.net/p/octave/feature-requests/) and there
>> is always ping-pong of suggestions and new versions. This is for me of
>> utter importance because that is the first contact with developers or
>> people that have more experience coding for Octave.
>
>
> The rating/feedback functionality is a good idea. Do you have any thoughts
> on how it should work? For instance, should the rating be a number (say, out
> of 5), and should anonymous users be allowed to rate things? The more ideas
> you have for this the better!
>
> (I'll address the versioning feature later on.)
>
> On 9 October 2012 15:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Also, even before the "editing the internal of the bundle"
>> functionality, I would prioritize on the licensing part. That is,
>> offering the uploaders the possibility to add license files to their
>> bundles, chosen from a predefined list. Carnë has written code to do
>> this and also as the collection of "accepted" licenses in the folder
>> admin of Octave Forge.
>
>
> Sure, I can do that. I can't quite find the the code and list of licenses
> that you're talking about, though - is it in this folder?
> http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11246/tree/trunk/octave-forge/admin/

He's talking about this script

http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11207/tree/trunk/octave-forge/admin/copyright_fix.pl

There's a block of documentation on how it works near the top. Let me
know if you have problems understanding it.

> On 9 October 2012 16:10, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> You may want to take a look at how it's done in launchpad
>>
>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/view/head:/apport/source_bzr.py
>> The line numbers have links, and you can copy and paste without
>> problem. I don't know the details of their solution but it works. And
>> it's free under AGPL.
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, Launchpad doesn't appear to
> incorporate line-wrapping, meaning that if a line is too long for the code
> box (horizontally) then the user will just have to scroll. That was one of
> the earlier implementations I had (since line numbers are really easy to
> work with in that situation), and it was brought up on the mailing list that
> having to scroll horizontally could be cumbersome, which is why I re-did it
> this way. If you have any other ideas on this, though, I'd be glad to hear
> about them.
>
> On 9 October 2012 16:10, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think this was actually part of the original design.
>>
>> On 9 October 2012 21:01, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>> > users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)"
>>
>> I second Juan that there's more important things and more: do NOT
>> implement this. After a release is made, it should not be changed.
>> What would happen if we went back, pulled down the 3.6.0 sources,
>> fixed a bug and released it again with the same version number? The
>> whole version system becomes useless.
>
>
> On 9 October 2012 17:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> > Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>> > users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>> > think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>>
>> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this
>> functionality at all.
>> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
>> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a
>> revision control system
>> would more appropriate.
>>
>> That's just me though ...
>
>
> That's true. I didn't think about that. It was more of a passing thought I
> had about how to make it easier to manage bundles. But I agree, that is not
> a good idea. Just to make sure I understand what the desired functionality
> is: users should have to upload a new zip/tar/etc file to release a new
> version of their bundle? And version numbers should be 1, 2, 3 etc rather
> than, say, 3.6.0?

Yes. And the user should not be able to specify version numbers. They
are done automatically with each upload. He also should not be able to
put them down and replace with a different one.

> -Wendy
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
On 12 October 2012 19:06, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
You forgot to include the mailing list

Oops, sorry about that.
 
He's talking about this script

http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11207/tree/trunk/octave-forge/admin/copyright_fix.pl

There's a block of documentation on how it works near the top. Let me
know if you have problems understanding it.

Great, thanks, I'll take a look.

Yes. And the user should not be able to specify version numbers. They
are done automatically with each upload. He also should not be able to
put them down and replace with a different one.

 Sounds good.

-Wendy
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Juan Pablo Carbajal-2
In reply to this post by Carnë Draug-2
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9 October 2012 23:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>>> think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>>
>> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
>> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
>> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
>> would more appropriate.
>>
>> That's just me though ...
>
> It's not just you, you are right. This functionality is not desirable
> at all. It's just making easier for all octave programmers that call
> themselves non-programmers to shoot themselves on the foot.
>
> Carnë

Hi Wendy,

I am sorry I did not answer your e-mail. I haven't been getting
messages from the mailing list (some mail problem at the uni). I saw
your answers thanks to your post in planet Octave. Thank you fro your
continuous update!

Regarding your question:

> The rating/feedback functionality is a good idea. Do you have any thoughts
> on how it should work? For instance, should the rating be a number (say, out
> of 5), and should anonymous users be allowed to rate things? The more ideas
> you have for this the better!

The method I thought would be useful is the one of the "like", "do not
like", with comments (something like youtube). Anonymous users
shouldn't be able to vote. It would be nice to have a download counter
as well, this one counting all download from anonymous and registered
users. The idea is that one would be able to make a search and order
by downloads and rate. I would start with something as simple as
possible, we just need what we have in the forums.
Eventually it would be very useful to have the possibility to flag
bundles but for this we will need special users, like admins, etc...
and this is too much... like in stackoverflow... lets leave it for the
future.

Again, the simple, the better.

All this in view of considering one of the uses of Agora to
recruit/detect future collaborators.


Thanks and good luck!
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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.-2

On 15 Oct 2012, at 16:14, Juan Pablo Carbajal wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 9 October 2012 23:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>>>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>>>> think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>>>
>>> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
>>> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
>>> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
>>> would more appropriate.
>>>
>>> That's just me though ...
>>
>> It's not just you, you are right. This functionality is not desirable
>> at all. It's just making easier for all octave programmers that call
>> themselves non-programmers to shoot themselves on the foot.
>>
>> Carnë
>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> I am sorry I did not answer your e-mail. I haven't been getting
> messages from the mailing list (some mail problem at the uni). I saw
> your answers thanks to your post in planet Octave. Thank you fro your
> continuous update!
>
> Regarding your question:
>
>> The rating/feedback functionality is a good idea. Do you have any thoughts
>> on how it should work? For instance, should the rating be a number (say, out
>> of 5), and should anonymous users be allowed to rate things? The more ideas
>> you have for this the better!
>
> The method I thought would be useful is the one of the "like", "do not
> like", with comments (something like youtube). Anonymous users
> shouldn't be able to vote. It would be nice to have a download counter
> as well, this one counting all download from anonymous and registered
> users. The idea is that one would be able to make a search and order
> by downloads and rate. I would start with something as simple as
> possible, we just need what we have in the forums.
> Eventually it would be very useful to have the possibility to flag
> bundles but for this we will need special users, like admins, etc...
> and this is too much... like in stackoverflow... lets leave it for the
> future.
>
> Again, the simple, the better.
>
> All this in view of considering one of the uses of Agora to
> recruit/detect future collaborators.
>
>
> Thanks and good luck!


Hi Wendy,

I just prepared new releases for some packages in Octave-Forge and I tried to upload them
to Agora in order to test the bundle-submission system.

Here are some comments you may (or may not) find useful to improve its functionality.

1) "Description"
   Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
   wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
   the package page on Octave-Forge?

2) Docs
   When uploading a package on Octave-Forge we include a set of html files with the package
   documentation that are automatically generated using the "generate_package_html" function.
   Wouldn't it be possible to allow users to upload such files on Agora as well and show them
   instead of the bundle file listing?

3) Browsing bundle contents
   I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
   sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
   the HTML docs.
 

3) "Name" field.
   It would be nice to add a warning under the field title specifying the acceptable
   format for the field to avoid trial-and-error

4) "Paste it" button.
   Shouldn't this read "Upload" in this context?

5) Formatted and unformatted bundles.
   These suggestions are biased towards the case were bundles being uploaded are in the format
   required by the Octave package manager ("pkg.m"), you might want to add a flag in the upload
   page that allows to specify whether the bundle peing uploaded is formatted according to this
   format or not and behave differently in the two cases.

These are just my two cents, others may think differently.
Anyways, starts to look very nice, keep up the very good work!
Thanks,
Carlo








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Re: Bundles in Agora

Juan Pablo Carbajal-2
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 15 Oct 2012, at 16:14, Juan Pablo Carbajal wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 9 October 2012 23:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>>>>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>>>>> think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
>>>> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
>>>> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
>>>> would more appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> That's just me though ...
>>>
>>> It's not just you, you are right. This functionality is not desirable
>>> at all. It's just making easier for all octave programmers that call
>>> themselves non-programmers to shoot themselves on the foot.
>>>
>>> Carnë
>>
>> Hi Wendy,
>>
>> I am sorry I did not answer your e-mail. I haven't been getting
>> messages from the mailing list (some mail problem at the uni). I saw
>> your answers thanks to your post in planet Octave. Thank you fro your
>> continuous update!
>>
>> Regarding your question:
>>
>>> The rating/feedback functionality is a good idea. Do you have any thoughts
>>> on how it should work? For instance, should the rating be a number (say, out
>>> of 5), and should anonymous users be allowed to rate things? The more ideas
>>> you have for this the better!
>>
>> The method I thought would be useful is the one of the "like", "do not
>> like", with comments (something like youtube). Anonymous users
>> shouldn't be able to vote. It would be nice to have a download counter
>> as well, this one counting all download from anonymous and registered
>> users. The idea is that one would be able to make a search and order
>> by downloads and rate. I would start with something as simple as
>> possible, we just need what we have in the forums.
>> Eventually it would be very useful to have the possibility to flag
>> bundles but for this we will need special users, like admins, etc...
>> and this is too much... like in stackoverflow... lets leave it for the
>> future.
>>
>> Again, the simple, the better.
>>
>> All this in view of considering one of the uses of Agora to
>> recruit/detect future collaborators.
>>
>>
>> Thanks and good luck!
>
>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> I just prepared new releases for some packages in Octave-Forge and I tried to upload them
> to Agora in order to test the bundle-submission system.
>
> Here are some comments you may (or may not) find useful to improve its functionality.
>
> 1) "Description"
>    Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
>    wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
>    the package page on Octave-Forge?
>
> 2) Docs
>    When uploading a package on Octave-Forge we include a set of html files with the package
>    documentation that are automatically generated using the "generate_package_html" function.
>    Wouldn't it be possible to allow users to upload such files on Agora as well and show them
>    instead of the bundle file listing?
>
> 3) Browsing bundle contents
>    I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
>    sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
>    the HTML docs.
>
>
> 3) "Name" field.
>    It would be nice to add a warning under the field title specifying the acceptable
>    format for the field to avoid trial-and-error
>
> 4) "Paste it" button.
>    Shouldn't this read "Upload" in this context?
>
> 5) Formatted and unformatted bundles.
>    These suggestions are biased towards the case were bundles being uploaded are in the format
>    required by the Octave package manager ("pkg.m"), you might want to add a flag in the upload
>    page that allows to specify whether the bundle peing uploaded is formatted according to this
>    format or not and behave differently in the two cases.
>
> These are just my two cents, others may think differently.
> Anyways, starts to look very nice, keep up the very good work!
> Thanks,
> Carlo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I subscribe to 1), 3)"Name", 4) and 5).

Cheers
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu


On 22 October 2012 08:07, Juan Pablo Carbajal <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 15 Oct 2012, at 16:14, Juan Pablo Carbajal wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 9 October 2012 23:48, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Oct 2012, at 22:10, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regarding your future stuff. "A bundle management system (so that
>>>>> users can rename, delete, and add files after creating a bundle)", I
>>>>> think wee need more basic functionality before this.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, if possible I'd prefer if you could NOT implement this functionality at all.
>>>> I'd rather have users upload complete releases of their bundles.
>>>> For managing incremental changes to single files I believe using a revision control system
>>>> would more appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> That's just me though ...
>>>
>>> It's not just you, you are right. This functionality is not desirable
>>> at all. It's just making easier for all octave programmers that call
>>> themselves non-programmers to shoot themselves on the foot.
>>>
>>> Carnë
>>
>> Hi Wendy,
>>
>> I am sorry I did not answer your e-mail. I haven't been getting
>> messages from the mailing list (some mail problem at the uni). I saw
>> your answers thanks to your post in planet Octave. Thank you fro your
>> continuous update!
>>
>> Regarding your question:
>>
>>> The rating/feedback functionality is a good idea. Do you have any thoughts
>>> on how it should work? For instance, should the rating be a number (say, out
>>> of 5), and should anonymous users be allowed to rate things? The more ideas
>>> you have for this the better!
>>
>> The method I thought would be useful is the one of the "like", "do not
>> like", with comments (something like youtube). Anonymous users
>> shouldn't be able to vote. It would be nice to have a download counter
>> as well, this one counting all download from anonymous and registered
>> users. The idea is that one would be able to make a search and order
>> by downloads and rate. I would start with something as simple as
>> possible, we just need what we have in the forums.
>> Eventually it would be very useful to have the possibility to flag
>> bundles but for this we will need special users, like admins, etc...
>> and this is too much... like in stackoverflow... lets leave it for the
>> future.
>>
>> Again, the simple, the better.
>>
>> All this in view of considering one of the uses of Agora to
>> recruit/detect future collaborators.
>>
>>
>> Thanks and good luck!
>
>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> I just prepared new releases for some packages in Octave-Forge and I tried to upload them
> to Agora in order to test the bundle-submission system.
>
> Here are some comments you may (or may not) find useful to improve its functionality.
>
> 1) "Description"
>    Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
>    wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
>    the package page on Octave-Forge?
>
> 2) Docs
>    When uploading a package on Octave-Forge we include a set of html files with the package
>    documentation that are automatically generated using the "generate_package_html" function.
>    Wouldn't it be possible to allow users to upload such files on Agora as well and show them
>    instead of the bundle file listing?
>
> 3) Browsing bundle contents
>    I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
>    sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
>    the HTML docs.
>
>
> 3) "Name" field.
>    It would be nice to add a warning under the field title specifying the acceptable
>    format for the field to avoid trial-and-error
>
> 4) "Paste it" button.
>    Shouldn't this read "Upload" in this context?
>
> 5) Formatted and unformatted bundles.
>    These suggestions are biased towards the case were bundles being uploaded are in the format
>    required by the Octave package manager ("pkg.m"), you might want to add a flag in the upload
>    page that allows to specify whether the bundle peing uploaded is formatted according to this
>    format or not and behave differently in the two cases.
>
> These are just my two cents, others may think differently.
> Anyways, starts to look very nice, keep up the very good work!
> Thanks,
> Carlo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I subscribe to 1), 3)"Name", 4) and 5).

Cheers

Thanks Juan and Carlo for your feedback. I'm going to be pretty busy with school for the next few days, but I'll work on addressing your comments on Thursday or Friday. In the meantime if there are any other comments I'd love to hear them and will get to them as soon as I get a chance.

-Wendy
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
In reply to this post by c.-2
On 22 October 2012 06:09, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Wendy,

I just prepared new releases for some packages in Octave-Forge and I tried to upload them
to Agora in order to test the bundle-submission system.

Here are some comments you may (or may not) find useful to improve its functionality.

1) "Description"
   Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
   wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
   the package page on Octave-Forge?

Done, you can see a demo here: http://agora.dellsystem.me/bundles/testing/description-test Let me know if that's not what you had in mind.
 

2) Docs
   When uploading a package on Octave-Forge we include a set of html files with the package
   documentation that are automatically generated using the "generate_package_html" function.
   Wouldn't it be possible to allow users to upload such files on Agora as well and show them
   instead of the bundle file listing?

I'll look into this, thanks for the suggestion.
 

3) Browsing bundle contents
   I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
   sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
   the HTML docs.

The thing is, the ability to browse the contents of a file is already present, and I think it's more useful to have this feature present than to not, just in case someone ever wants to look at a file without having to download the package, so I would prefer to keep this feature. It's also handy if you ever want to link to a specific line in a file (when reporting a bug, for instance).

3) "Name" field.
   It would be nice to add a warning under the field title specifying the acceptable
   format for the field to avoid trial-and-error

This has been done, agora.octave.org hasn't been updated with it yet though.
 

4) "Paste it" button.
   Shouldn't this read "Upload" in this context?

I've changed it to "Save bundle", thanks for pointing that out. The same form is used when editing a bundle (and it's not necessary to upload a new version in that form) so I tried to pick something that would work in all cases.
 
5) Formatted and unformatted bundles.
   These suggestions are biased towards the case were bundles being uploaded are in the format
   required by the Octave package manager ("pkg.m"), you might want to add a flag in the upload
   page that allows to specify whether the bundle peing uploaded is formatted according to this
   format or not and behave differently in the two cases.

That's a good idea. I've added this as a checkbox.
 
These are just my two cents, others may think differently.
Anyways, starts to look very nice, keep up the very good work!
Thanks,
Carlo
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Juan Pablo Carbajal-2
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 22 October 2012 06:09, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wendy,
>>
>> I just prepared new releases for some packages in Octave-Forge and I tried
>> to upload them
>> to Agora in order to test the bundle-submission system.
>>
>> Here are some comments you may (or may not) find useful to improve its
>> functionality.
>>
>> 1) "Description"
>>    Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a
>> "DESCRIPTION" file,
>>    wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done
>> to create
>>    the package page on Octave-Forge?
>
>
> Done, you can see a demo here:
> http://agora.dellsystem.me/bundles/testing/description-test Let me know if
> that's not what you had in mind.
>
>>
>>
>> 2) Docs
>>    When uploading a package on Octave-Forge we include a set of html files
>> with the package
>>    documentation that are automatically generated using the
>> "generate_package_html" function.
>>    Wouldn't it be possible to allow users to upload such files on Agora as
>> well and show them
>>    instead of the bundle file listing?
>
>
> I'll look into this, thanks for the suggestion.
>
>>
>>
>> 3) Browsing bundle contents
>>    I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a
>> bundle makes much
>>    sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license
>> and possibly
>>    the HTML docs.
>
>
> The thing is, the ability to browse the contents of a file is already
> present, and I think it's more useful to have this feature present than to
> not, just in case someone ever wants to look at a file without having to
> download the package, so I would prefer to keep this feature. It's also
> handy if you ever want to link to a specific line in a file (when reporting
> a bug, for instance).
>
>> 3) "Name" field.
>>    It would be nice to add a warning under the field title specifying the
>> acceptable
>>    format for the field to avoid trial-and-error
>
>
> This has been done, agora.octave.org hasn't been updated with it yet though.
>
>>
>>
>> 4) "Paste it" button.
>>    Shouldn't this read "Upload" in this context?
>
>
> I've changed it to "Save bundle", thanks for pointing that out. The same
> form is used when editing a bundle (and it's not necessary to upload a new
> version in that form) so I tried to pick something that would work in all
> cases.
>
>>
>> 5) Formatted and unformatted bundles.
>>    These suggestions are biased towards the case were bundles being
>> uploaded are in the format
>>    required by the Octave package manager ("pkg.m"), you might want to add
>> a flag in the upload
>>    page that allows to specify whether the bundle peing uploaded is
>> formatted according to this
>>    format or not and behave differently in the two cases.
>
>
> That's a good idea. I've added this as a checkbox.
>
>>
>> These are just my two cents, others may think differently.
>> Anyways, starts to look very nice, keep up the very good work!
>> Thanks,
>> Carlo

Thank for all the changes Wendy!

I agree with your comment on "3) Browsing bundle contents"
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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu
Hi Wendy,

Thank you very much for working on this!

On 27 Oct 2012, at 22:51, Wendy Liu wrote:

>
> 1) "Description"
>    Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
>    wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
>    the package page on Octave-Forge?
>
> Done, you can see a demo here: http://agora.dellsystem.me/bundles/testing/description-test Let me know if that's not what you had in mind.

Sort of, it seems you are just copying the contents of the DESCRIPTION file verbatim on the page, aren't you?

What I had in mind was rather something like this:
http://octave.sourceforge.net/bim/index.html

Here the DESCRIPTION file is being parsed by an Octave script and the contents are used to compose the web page for the package.

For example, the version number in Agora is now

"version 1"

because that is the first time I uploaded the package while on Octave-Forge the version number given in the DESCRIPTION file is used, that is:

"Package Version: 1.1.1"

And also notice that you don't need to write code to do this kind of parsing from scratch as it is already available in generate_html.

c.

c.
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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.

On 28 Oct 2012, at 07:26, c. wrote:

> Hi Wendy,
>
> Thank you very much for working on this!
>
> On 27 Oct 2012, at 22:51, Wendy Liu wrote:
>
>>
>> 1) "Description"
>>   Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
>>   wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
>>   the package page on Octave-Forge?
>>
>> Done, you can see a demo here: http://agora.dellsystem.me/bundles/testing/description-test Let me know if that's not what you had in mind.
>
> Sort of, it seems you are just copying the contents of the DESCRIPTION file verbatim on the page, aren't you?
>
> What I had in mind was rather something like this:
> http://octave.sourceforge.net/bim/index.html
>
> Here the DESCRIPTION file is being parsed by an Octave script and the contents are used to compose the web page for the package.
>
> For example, the version number in Agora is now
>
> "version 1"
>
> because that is the first time I uploaded the package while on Octave-Forge the version number given in the DESCRIPTION file is used, that is:
>
> "Package Version: 1.1.1"
>
> And also notice that you don't need to write code to do this kind of parsing from scratch as it is already available in generate_html.
>
> c.
>

By the way, I seem to have forgotten my login password, how do I reset my account password?

c.

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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu
Wendy, Juan Pablo,


On 27 Oct 2012, at 22:51, Wendy Liu wrote:
> 3) Browsing bundle contents
>    I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
>    sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
>    the HTML docs.
>
> The thing is, the ability to browse the contents of a file is already present, and I think it's more useful to have this feature present than to not, just in case someone ever wants to look at a file without having to download the package, so I would prefer to keep this feature. It's also handy if you ever want to link to a specific line in a file (when reporting a bug, for instance).

On 28 Oct 2012, at 07:19, Juan Pablo Carbajal wrote:

> Thank for all the changes Wendy!
>
> I agree with your comment on "3) Browsing bundle contents"

The thing is that this approach seems to be just trying to replicate functionalities of a VCS.
If a VCS is what we need, we should just be using one.

For example any VCS I know already provides a web interface that allows to point at a single line in a file, eg.g.:
http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11372/tree/trunk/octave-forge/extra/bim/inst/bim1a_advection_diffusion.m#l66

And it also provides many cool more advanced features like for example looking at previos versions and comparing two versions:
http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11320/tree/trunk/octave-forge/extra/bim/inst/bim1a_advection_diffusion.m?diff=505e333171b75b10eb655d97:11319

Also, if "editing a bundle" means changing contents of a single file of the bundle, that this is not
something I think should be done via the web interface.

Bundle maintainers should just prepare a new release of the whole bundle, give it a version number and upload.
Otherwise there would be multiple "versions" of the same bundle in the wild, with different contents but with
the same version number.

You might think of avoiding this by incrementing the version number automatically whenever any change is made to any file, but then doesn't this sound like
replicating the functionality of a VCS again?

Anyways, thanks again to Wendy for all her great work!

c.



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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
In reply to this post by c.
On 28 October 2012 02:28, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
By the way, I seem to have forgotten my login password, how do I reset my account password?

c.


Unfortunately, this feature is not present yet. You'll probably have to wait for Jordi to reset it for you from the admin interface. Sorry about that. I'll add it to my to-do list.
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
In reply to this post by c.-2
On 28 October 2012 02:26, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Wendy,

Thank you very much for working on this!

On 27 Oct 2012, at 22:51, Wendy Liu wrote:

>
> 1) "Description"
>    Bundles formatted as Octave loadable packages do include a "DESCRIPTION" file,
>    wouldn't it be possible to parse that directly as it is currently done to create
>    the package page on Octave-Forge?
>
> Done, you can see a demo here: http://agora.dellsystem.me/bundles/testing/description-test Let me know if that's not what you had in mind.

Sort of, it seems you are just copying the contents of the DESCRIPTION file verbatim on the page, aren't you?

What I had in mind was rather something like this:
http://octave.sourceforge.net/bim/index.html

Here the DESCRIPTION file is being parsed by an Octave script and the contents are used to compose the web page for the package.

For example, the version number in Agora is now

"version 1"

because that is the first time I uploaded the package while on Octave-Forge the version number given in the DESCRIPTION file is used, that is:

"Package Version:       1.1.1"

And also notice that you don't need to write code to do this kind of parsing from scratch as it is already available in generate_html.

c.


Cool, I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.
c.
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Re: Bundles in Agora

c.
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu

On 28 Oct 2012, at 07:52, Wendy Liu wrote:

> Unfortunately, this feature is not present yet. You'll probably have to wait for Jordi to reset it for you from the admin interface. Sorry about that. I'll add it to my to-do list.
OK, thanks, I'll just create a new user to do more testing for the moment.
c.
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Re: Bundles in Agora

Wendy Liu
In reply to this post by c.-2
On 28 October 2012 02:51, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wendy, Juan Pablo,


On 27 Oct 2012, at 22:51, Wendy Liu wrote:
> 3) Browsing bundle contents
>    I don't think the ability to browse the contents of all the files in a bundle makes much
>    sense, it would be better to just show the description, index, license and possibly
>    the HTML docs.
>
> The thing is, the ability to browse the contents of a file is already present, and I think it's more useful to have this feature present than to not, just in case someone ever wants to look at a file without having to download the package, so I would prefer to keep this feature. It's also handy if you ever want to link to a specific line in a file (when reporting a bug, for instance).

On 28 Oct 2012, at 07:19, Juan Pablo Carbajal wrote:

> Thank for all the changes Wendy!
>
> I agree with your comment on "3) Browsing bundle contents"

The thing is that this approach seems to be just trying to replicate functionalities of a VCS.
If a VCS is what we need, we should just be using one.

For example any VCS I know already provides a web interface that allows to point at a single line in a file, eg.g.:
http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11372/tree/trunk/octave-forge/extra/bim/inst/bim1a_advection_diffusion.m#l66

And it also provides many cool more advanced features like for example looking at previos versions and comparing two versions:
http://sourceforge.net/p/octave/code/11320/tree/trunk/octave-forge/extra/bim/inst/bim1a_advection_diffusion.m?diff=505e333171b75b10eb655d97:11319

Also, if "editing a bundle" means changing contents of a single file of the bundle, that this is not
something I think should be done via the web interface.

Bundle maintainers should just prepare a new release of the whole bundle, give it a version number and upload.
Otherwise there would be multiple "versions" of the same bundle in the wild, with different contents but with
the same version number.

You might think of avoiding this by incrementing the version number automatically whenever any change is made to any file, but then doesn't this sound like
replicating the functionality of a VCS again?

Anyways, thanks again to Wendy for all her great work!

c.

The impression I got from Jordi was that Agora Octave was meant to be a code-sharing site like Bitbucket/Github/Sourceforge but with a very low barrier to entry. So, similar to all the VCS-backed code-sharing sites out there, only without a VCS, to make it easier for people who aren't comfortable with them to use the site. So I pretty much am trying to replicate certain features of VCSes (or at least, VCS-backed code-sharing sites), but the intention is to do so without actually making the user use a version control system. It's not possible to just use the web interfaces themselves, because Agora is meant to be more than simply a web interface to a VCS, and even using certain parts of the web interfaces would be difficult due to language/dependency/other integration issues. (The plan is to get Mercurial integration working eventually, so that versions are tracked transparently with hg, without users having to ever create a repository or commit anything themselves, but this hasn't been done yet.)

As for editing bundles: I mentioned earlier in the thread that I would be scrapping this feature, based on feedback suggesting that it would not be a good idea. So users do have to prepare a new version of the bundle to update it, rather than editing individual files. Hopefully that clears things up.
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