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Feedback on Agora Octave design

Wendy Liu
Hi all,

I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:


Comments and suggestions are welcome!

Thanks,
Wendy
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Juan Pablo Carbajal
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of
> ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:
>
> http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-2/
>
> Comments and suggestions are welcome!
>
> Thanks,
> Wendy

Wendy,

It looks great!

I am forwarding your post to some friends designers.Maybe they give
you some feedback on the fonts.


--
M. Sc. Juan Pablo Carbajal
-----
PhD Student
University of Zürich
http://ailab.ifi.uzh.ch/carbajal/
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Doug Stewart-4
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu


On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:


Comments and suggestions are welcome!

Thanks,
Wendy


Where you have

Upload a Bundle

I would add

Upload a Bundle (Share your Code)


Probable someone else will disagree  of have other Ideas.
Just my 2C worth.
Keep up the good work.

--
DAS

https://linuxcounter.net/user/206392.html
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Jacob Dawid
Wendy,


I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:


Comments and suggestions are welcome!

the overall design is nice, I like the combination of blue and light gray. Some suggestions form my side:

1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss - help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.

2.) The alignment of three actions on the frontpage is very nice. However, the Octave logo doesn't fit in there at the first item.

3.) Notice that the Agora logo and menu items are not aligned with the text box at the bottom. Since I think the menubar is very well proportioned, I would broaden the text, so it aligns with the agora logo on the left and with the right edge of the last menu item on the right.

Jacob


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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

bpabbott
Administrator
On Aug 18, 2012, at 4:40 AM, Jacob Dawid wrote:

> 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss - help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.

Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?

Ben

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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Jacob Dawid

> 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss - help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.

Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?

I don't think so. Open up eBay, facebook or any other site. The most important action is always starting as the leftmost item on the upper right area. On eBay this is "Buy", on facebook it is "Register", on amazon "Log in", etc.  
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

c.-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu

On 17 Aug 2012, at 23:41, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 17:34:20 -0400
> From: Wendy Liu <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Feedback on Agora Octave design
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of
> ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:
>
> http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-2/
>
> Comments and suggestions are welcome!
>
> Thanks,
> Wendy

Hi Wendy,

Looks very nice!
Just one comment, don't you think there are too many logos?
I mean,

1) the greek temple for Agora
2) The old style Octave Sombrero
3) The new "O" Octave logo

don't you think getting rid of at least one of them would make thingscleaner?
Maybe you could substitute the "O" logo for the sombrero in the header banner?

just my 2c.
c.
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Juan Pablo Carbajal
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 5:14 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 17 Aug 2012, at 23:41, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 17:34:20 -0400
>> From: Wendy Liu <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Feedback on Agora Octave design
>> Message-ID:
>>       <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of
>> ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:
>>
>> http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-2/
>>
>> Comments and suggestions are welcome!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wendy
>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> Looks very nice!
> Just one comment, don't you think there are too many logos?
> I mean,
>
> 1) the greek temple for Agora
> 2) The old style Octave Sombrero
> 3) The new "O" Octave logo
>
> don't you think getting rid of at least one of them would make thingscleaner?
> Maybe you could substitute the "O" logo for the sombrero in the header banner?
>
> just my 2c.
> c.

Oh!
The "O" logo In like it pretty much... the Sombrero thing is too
similar to you-know-whom.


--
M. Sc. Juan Pablo Carbajal
-----
PhD Student
University of Zürich
http://ailab.ifi.uzh.ch/carbajal/
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

bpabbott
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jacob Dawid
On Aug 18, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Jacob Dawid wrote:

> > 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss - help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.
>
> Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?
>
> I don't think so. Open up eBay, facebook or any other site. The most important action is always starting as the leftmost item on the upper right area. On eBay this is "Buy", on facebook it is "Register", on amazon "Log in", etc.  

hmmm .... the sites you listed don't have an "About" link.  Regarding a conventional order, I was thinking along the lines of ...

        http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/

Ben

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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Carnë Draug-2
In reply to this post by Wendy Liu
On 17 August 2012 22:34, Wendy Liu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of
> ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:
>
> http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-2/
>
> Comments and suggestions are welcome!

Here's my comments:

  * there's no "log in" button on the top bar. Yes, it's at the bottom
of the mock page but that will be only the main page (I think) and we
will need to give users a link to log in when they are in other pages
of Agora. My guess would be to have a "Log in/Register" button which
turns into a "Profile" button after logging in. As a icon I'd say
something like a shade of a bust.

  * I'd remove the "Sign up" button at the bottom for the following
reason: it looks like creating an account is necessary to navigate the
site. That's the first thing it comes to my mind when I see such
thing. And since there's no reason to limit users that way, the second
thing I think is that someone will try to sell me something. If I saw
that on a site, I would immediately start mistrusting it. Makes it too
corporational, which lacks the nice feeling of having a community with
people sharing things out of interest. Most likely I'd just go away
thinking it was something proprietary. But that's just me. Still do
not need it. Most people will use the site to take code, rather than
giving so they will not need an account. That means that such a button
is not very important and the one on the top bar would be enough.

  * the top bar is too tall. I use my netbook a lot which has a really
small screen so together with the bar of the browser, it already takes
up half of my vertical space. My opinion would be to drop the bottom
bar (the blue one with the sombrero logo). Another reason to drop it
is that it doesn't add anything to the site and it kind of breaks the
space between the top bar and the page too much. Like having a short
wall on the middle of a road. I'd say the space between the top bar
and the page should be more like climbing down a step and staying on
that other level (maybe making the background of the top bar a bit
darker to stand out the difference from the rest of the page).

  * similar to the above point, maybe reduce the space between the
logos and the actual top of the page? Looks like there's a lot of
unused space there.

  * more on the same point, the icons and the font on the top are too
large. I'd say maybe half the size should still be enough. And the
space between the icons and text is too large.

  * rather than "Upload a bundle", can it be "Upload your code" and
have it link to upload both a single or a bundle? At the moment
there's no place to upload a single

  * I think I like the new Agora logo. Definitely much prefer the
square as black. The previous one was the same used for binaries
without icons (default style of Gnome I believe) which many times,
means an .exe for windows and meant frustration was close.

We need better names for single and bundle before they stick. They
were never meant to. It was supposed to be during OctConf only. Any
suggestions?

Carnë

P.S.: rereading my e-mail, I sound too mean and bossy. My apologies,
these are just my views and I know that on aesthetics, there's many
different opinions. Don't read it as in "do it this way".
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Carnë Draug-2
In reply to this post by Jacob Dawid
On 18 August 2012 15:58, Jacob Dawid <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>
>> > 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss -
>> > help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.
>>
>> Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?
>
> I don't think so. Open up eBay, facebook or any other site. The most
> important action is always starting as the leftmost item on the upper right
> area. On eBay this is "Buy", on facebook it is "Register", on amazon "Log
> in", etc.

I'd go with Jacob on this one. Actually most of the times I'd even
look for an About or Help button on the bottom of the page, not on the
top.

That reminds me of something I read some years ago on a book of
website design. That we should also have the main buttons also on the
bottom of the page. The reasoning for this is that after you finished
reading a page, you don't have to scroll to the top to click on them.
These buttons would not have the icon, just a line of text, each word
the same link as the buttons.

Carnë
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

bpabbott
Administrator
On Aug 18, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Carnë Draug wrote:

> On 18 August 2012 15:58, Jacob Dawid <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>> 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss -
>>>> help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.
>>>
>>> Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?
>>
>> I don't think so. Open up eBay, facebook or any other site. The most
>> important action is always starting as the leftmost item on the upper right
>> area. On eBay this is "Buy", on facebook it is "Register", on amazon "Log
>> in", etc.
>
> I'd go with Jacob on this one. Actually most of the times I'd even
> look for an About or Help button on the bottom of the page, not on the
> top.
>
> That reminds me of something I read some years ago on a book of
> website design. That we should also have the main buttons also on the
> bottom of the page. The reasoning for this is that after you finished
> reading a page, you don't have to scroll to the top to click on them.
> These buttons would not have the icon, just a line of text, each word
> the same link as the buttons.
>
> Carnë


I'm confused.  Is the suggestion to move the main buttons from the top of the page to the bottom, or that they should be in both places?  The latter is fine, but the former seems unorthodox.

Regarding the position of the "About" button in the list of links, my thought was the links are equivalent to a table of contents with "About" equivalent to the abstract or introduction.

In any event, these points are rather trivial.  Personally, I'm excited about Wendy's work and eager to take Agora for a test drive.

Ben

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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Carnë Draug-2
On 19 August 2012 01:25, Ben Abbott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Aug 18, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Carnë Draug wrote:
>> On 18 August 2012 15:58, Jacob Dawid <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> 1.) The order of menu items is weird. It should be: code - discuss -
>>>>> help - about, descending depending on how frequent you use it.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it conventional that "about" comes first?
>>>
>>> I don't think so. Open up eBay, facebook or any other site. The most
>>> important action is always starting as the leftmost item on the upper right
>>> area. On eBay this is "Buy", on facebook it is "Register", on amazon "Log
>>> in", etc.
>>
>> I'd go with Jacob on this one. Actually most of the times I'd even
>> look for an About or Help button on the bottom of the page, not on the
>> top.
>>
>> That reminds me of something I read some years ago on a book of
>> website design. That we should also have the main buttons also on the
>> bottom of the page. The reasoning for this is that after you finished
>> reading a page, you don't have to scroll to the top to click on them.
>> These buttons would not have the icon, just a line of text, each word
>> the same link as the buttons.
>
>
> I'm confused.  Is the suggestion to move the main buttons from the top of the page to the bottom, or that they should be in both places?  The latter is fine, but the former seems unorthodox.

Yes, I meant in both places. Just that in the bottom there would be no
icons, just a single word for each link. I think that's actually
pretty standard on most websites.

> Regarding the position of the "About" button in the list of links, my thought was the links are equivalent to a table of contents with "About" equivalent to the abstract or introduction.

I don't think that applies to websites. For example, you said those
websites didn't had about. On facebook, at the bottom of the left side
panel, there's some links. Below the link for "help", there's a button
that says "more". That button makes appear the button for "About". May
be that the "more" button is only on small monitors like mine, but
even still, the "About" only appears there, where is barely visible.
On Ebay, the About button at the bottom of the page. On Amazon is also
only at the bottom under the section "Get to know us". On FileExchange
took me some time to find it but is at the bottom of the left panel.
On Ted talks, is at the top, again on the top left corner.

Carnë
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Jacob Dawid
There is not definite answer which website design is "the right one", because it always depends on various factors that are based on the target audience and the money you have. Which browsers do they use (some companies still use old IE)? What is the average screen size? Must the design fit a public image, or can it be utilitarian? How is the internet connection (for example, websites for mobile devices or regions with a bad connection have to be significantly smaller)? How much weighs the server bandwidth and server load?

All the questions lead to an (also visual) design. I would define the majority of users, ie. target audience like that:

1.) Browser that supports CSS 3.0 fully, ie. FF, Chromium and so on. No need to have tweaks or workarounds for IE, so we can ignore it.
2.) Screen size 1280x800 or bigger.
3.) Professional target audience => Very modern, clean design. That means, one toolbar on top (toolbars on top and at the bottom were stylish before 98'), actions on the frontpage, schematic logos, a maximum of two colors. Apple products aren't that popular because they are better by any means, but everything Apple does and they way the way they present it screams for perfectionism/professionalism.
4.) It has to be cheap, we should really care for bandwidth.

It is entirely wrong to map personal wishes on this project. For example, Carne, you mentioned you work with a netbook. But that is not representative, others might work with a stationary computer with a 24 inch screen. So you have to ask yourself: What is the best solution for ALL Agora users?
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Jacob Dawid
Also, regarding all I have said before, I think Wendy hit the nail on its head. It is a good base for a design and fits together nicely, just a few tweaks and it will be perfect.
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Daniel Sebald
In reply to this post by Carnë Draug-2
On 08/18/2012 06:18 PM, Carnë Draug wrote:

> On 17 August 2012 22:34, Wendy Liu<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been working on a mockup for the redesign of Agora Octave as part of
>> ESA's summer of code. You can see a preview here:
>>
>> http://dellsystem.me/posts/agora-octave-update-2/
>>
>> Comments and suggestions are welcome!
>
> Here's my comments:

[snip]

>    * I'd remove the "Sign up" button at the bottom for the following
> reason: it looks like creating an account is necessary to navigate the
> site. That's the first thing it comes to my mind when I see such
> thing.

I thought that too.


>  And since there's no reason to limit users that way, the second
> thing I think is that someone will try to sell me something. If I saw
> that on a site, I would immediately start mistrusting it. Makes it too
> corporational, which lacks the nice feeling of having a community with
> people sharing things out of interest. Most likely I'd just go away
> thinking it was something proprietary. But that's just me.

No, same here.  I'd put in small writing inside or below the button
something like "privacy protected" or "info not released".  As you say
Carnë, I too have a level of mistrust in the sense I'm afraid my email
address will be put on some list and distributed without my knowledge.


[snip]

>    * rather than "Upload a bundle", can it be "Upload your code" and
> have it link to upload both a single or a bundle? At the moment
> there's no place to upload a single

"Upload code bundle"?  With a dialog box that pops up when the cursor is
positioned over top reading "multiple files in zip file".


>    * I think I like the new Agora logo. Definitely much prefer the
> square as black. The previous one was the same used for binaries
> without icons (default style of Gnome I believe) which many times,
> means an .exe for windows and meant frustration was close.

When the cursor is positioned over the parthanon logo, could lilting
strains of an ancient Greek lyra be heard?

http://homoecumenicus.com/ancient_instruments.htm

Some kind of ascending pattern over one octave would make sense.  It
would make people feel a sense of history.

And how about if the mouse is positioned over the Octave logo the little
square boxes slowly rotate around the O, with an accompanying swooshing
sound?  Does this require Java?  :-)

Dan
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Re: Feedback on Agora Octave design

Wendy Liu
Thanks for the comments everyone! I'll do my best to take them into account and will post an update next Friday.
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