Octave on Android

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Octave on Android

Thomas Treichl
Dear Corbin,

   a few days ago I found Octave for Android on Google Play Store and I
highly appreciate your port of Octave to that platform. The startup
display of Octave always comes up with the question if I want to make a
donation and that's where I ask myself: Is it the Core Octave
Development team who receives the donation or is it you in person? Can
you please clarify that?

   Next, Octave tells me that I can get more packages from Play Store.
What I did, I installed Octave ODE Package which didn't work. *hmmm* I
thought, ok, something's wrong. But then I found this little sentence at
Play Store in the package description which tells me:

   "Currently, only functions if you have made a donation."
   https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave.ode&hl=de

   Or in my own words I would say: I have to pay for it because I don't
really have an option if I want to use them. Have you read the license
of these codes?

Best regards

   Thomas
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Re: Octave on Android

corbinlc
I am sorry didn't hit reply to all the first time.  

Thomas,

The money goes to me, not to the core GNU Octave development team.  

"Support free software on Android. Money provided will guarantee the continued development, maintenance and support for Octave for Android. It will also help in the development of other Android applications that will make your device into something amazing.  Unlocks all features and gets rid of nag screen."

If you wish to give money to the core team, their website has the ability to do so www.octave.org.  

Currently, it is just the ODE and financial toolboxes that require donation.  For those two packages, if you donate any amount, they start to work.  If you are unhappy with that, I am going to be adding a $1 choice soon (there is much more changing than that soon).

I have a pretty good understanding of the GNU Public License, the license which you are referring to.  That license allows charging for distribution.  The free-ness that is guaranteed by the GPL is not $$, but instead that the program can be modified freely and redistributed by users.

I hope this proves useful to you!

Thanks,
Corbin


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Thomas Treichl <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Corbin,

  a few days ago I found Octave for Android on Google Play Store and I highly appreciate your port of Octave to that platform. The startup display of Octave always comes up with the question if I want to make a donation and that's where I ask myself: Is it the Core Octave Development team who receives the donation or is it you in person? Can you please clarify that?

  Next, Octave tells me that I can get more packages from Play Store. What I did, I installed Octave ODE Package which didn't work. *hmmm* I thought, ok, something's wrong. But then I found this little sentence at Play Store in the package description which tells me:

  "Currently, only functions if you have made a donation."
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave.ode&hl=de

  Or in my own words I would say: I have to pay for it because I don't really have an option if I want to use them. Have you read the license of these codes?

Best regards

  Thomas

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Re: Octave on Android

Thomas Treichl
In reply to this post by Thomas Treichl
Dear Corbin,

  I expect that people from the Core Octave Development team are not very happy about your answer, but I'll let them comment theirselves on your email.

  On the subject of OdePkg (which I developed mainly myself for many many many hours) I already informed Google Play Store that -from my point of view- you clearly violate the GPL.

Best Regards

  Thomas

---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------
Von: "Corbin Champion" <[hidden email]>
Datum: 21.10.2013 22:10
Betreff: Re: Octave on Android
An: "Thomas Treichl" <[hidden email]>
Cc:

Thomas,

The money goes to me, not to the core GNU Octave development team. 

"Support free software on Android. Money provided will guarantee the continued development, maintenance and support for Octave for Android. It will also help in the development of other Android applications that will make your device into something amazing.  Unlocks all features and gets rid of nag screen."

If you wish to give money to the core team, their website has the ability to do so www.octave.org

Currently, it is just the ODE and financial toolboxes that require donation.  For those two packages, if you donate any amount, they start to work.  If you are unhappy with that, I am going to be adding a $1 choice soon (there is much more changing than that soon).

I have a pretty good understanding of the GNU Public License, the license which you are referring to.  That license allows charging for distribution.  The free-ness that is guaranteed by the GPL is not $$, but instead that the program can be modified freely and redistributed by users.

I hope this proves useful to you!

Thanks,
Corbin


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Thomas Treichl <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Corbin,

  a few days ago I found Octave for Android on Google Play Store and I highly appreciate your port of Octave to that platform. The startup display of Octave always comes up with the question if I want to make a donation and that's where I ask myself: Is it the Core Octave Development team who receives the donation or is it you in person? Can you please clarify that?

  Next, Octave tells me that I can get more packages from Play Store. What I did, I installed Octave ODE Package which didn't work. *hmmm* I thought, ok, something's wrong. But then I found this little sentence at Play Store in the package description which tells me:

  "Currently, only functions if you have made a donation."
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave.ode&hl=de

  Or in my own words I would say: I have to pay for it because I don't really have an option if I want to use them. Have you read the license of these codes?

Best regards

  Thomas

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Re: Octave on Android

Richard Crozier
In reply to this post by corbinlc
Dear Corbin,

I am not a member of the core Octave development team, but I am
interested in your odepkg app on google play.

Please can you tell me where I can obtain a copy the full source code of
odepkg for Octave on Android, in, of course, the state that it is ready
for building on Android, including any build scripts etc, as per the
requirements of the GPL.

Many thanks,
Richard Crozier

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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Re: Octave on Android

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Treichl
On Tue, 2013-10-22 at 10:56 +0200, Thomas Treichl wrote:
>   On the subject of OdePkg (which I developed mainly myself for many
> many many hours) I already informed Google Play Store that -from my
> point of view- you clearly violate the GPL.

What is the GPL violation? Corbin's source code is available here:

    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android

If you are offended by his request for a donation, you are free to
undo it:

    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L377

It is not a GPL violation to charge money for distribution. In fact, I
encourage anyone who redistributes Octave to do so, and I specifically
recommended to Corbin that he should take the opportunity to charge
for it, since this is such a convenient distribution mechanism.

- Jordi G. H.


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Re: Octave on Android

bpabbott
Administrator
On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:

> On Tue, 2013-10-22 at 10:56 +0200, Thomas Treichl wrote:
>>  On the subject of OdePkg (which I developed mainly myself for many
>> many many hours) I already informed Google Play Store that -from my
>> point of view- you clearly violate the GPL.
>
> What is the GPL violation? Corbin's source code is available here:
>
>    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android
>
> If you are offended by his request for a donation, you are free to
> undo it:
>
>    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L377
>
> It is not a GPL violation to charge money for distribution. In fact, I
> encourage anyone who redistributes Octave to do so, and I specifically
> recommended to Corbin that he should take the opportunity to charge
> for it, since this is such a convenient distribution mechanism.
>
> - Jordi G. H.

Jordi,

Thomas provided MacOS X binaries for several years and also made the scripts needed to produce the bundles available on sourceforge.  My impression is that he is familiar with the terms of the GPL.

I expect Thomas was unaware that Corbin's source code was available.

I assume it wasn't your intent, but the tone of your email strikes me as disrespectful and argumentative.  I don't think Thomas email deserved such a response.

Ben

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Re: Octave on Android

c.-2
In reply to this post by Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2

On 22 Oct 2013, at 14:44, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 2013-10-22 at 10:56 +0200, Thomas Treichl wrote:
>>  On the subject of OdePkg (which I developed mainly myself for many
>> many many hours) I already informed Google Play Store that -from my
>> point of view- you clearly violate the GPL.
>
> What is the GPL violation? Corbin's source code is available here:
>
>    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android
>
> If you are offended by his request for a donation, you are free to
> undo it:
>
>    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L377
>
> It is not a GPL violation to charge money for distribution. In fact, I
> encourage anyone who redistributes Octave to do so, and I specifically
> recommended to Corbin that he should take the opportunity to charge
> for it, since this is such a convenient distribution mechanism.
>
> - Jordi G. H.

I believe the problem that was brought up is with the odepkg package:

"Currently, it is just the ODE and financial toolboxes that require donation."

the problem is with the "require" part and with the fact that the full patched sources
and the corresponding build scripts do not seem to be available. Are they?

the solution offered by Corbin does not seem to be satisfactory:

" If you are unhappy with that, I am going to be adding a $1 choice soon (there is much more changing than that soon)."

GPLv3 demands that if restrictions are applied, users have the freedom to remove the restrictions,
a "special discount" does not look like a viable alternative to me.

c.
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Re: Octave on Android

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2
On Tue, 2013-10-22 at 15:02 +0200, c. wrote:

> "Currently, it is just the ODE and financial toolboxes that require donation."
>
> the problem is with the "require" part and with the fact that the
> full patched sources and the corresponding build scripts do not seem
> to be available. Are they?

I believe this is precisely that required source code. This looks like
the line that you have to change if you want to create a version that
does not ask for a donation for these two packages:

    https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L232

Corbin, am I correct, or is there more required to build this package?

- Jordi G. H.


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Re: Octave on Android

c.-2

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:07, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe this is precisely that required source code. This looks like
> the line that you have to change if you want to create a version that
> does not ask for a donation for these two packages:
>
>   https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L232
>
> Corbin, am I correct, or is there more required to build this package?

If that is so that's cool! I'd love to try and build and run Octave on my Galaxy ...
Corbin, can you confirm that evrything I need is on github?

> - Jordi G. H.
c.
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Re: Octave on Android

corbinlc
In reply to this post by Thomas Treichl

Why do you think it violates the GPL?  What do you want corrected?  The Octave maintainers are aware of my policy.  One of their paid staff even encouraged charging.
Corbin

On Oct 22, 2013 1:56 AM, "Thomas Treichl" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Corbin,

  I expect that people from the Core Octave Development team are not very happy about your answer, but I'll let them comment theirselves on your email.

  On the subject of OdePkg (which I developed mainly myself for many many many hours) I already informed Google Play Store that -from my point of view- you clearly violate the GPL.

Best Regards

  Thomas

---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ----------
Von: "Corbin Champion" <[hidden email]>
Datum: 21.10.2013 22:10
Betreff: Re: Octave on Android
An: "Thomas Treichl" <[hidden email]>
Cc:

Thomas,

The money goes to me, not to the core GNU Octave development team. 

"Support free software on Android. Money provided will guarantee the continued development, maintenance and support for Octave for Android. It will also help in the development of other Android applications that will make your device into something amazing.  Unlocks all features and gets rid of nag screen."

If you wish to give money to the core team, their website has the ability to do so www.octave.org

Currently, it is just the ODE and financial toolboxes that require donation.  For those two packages, if you donate any amount, they start to work.  If you are unhappy with that, I am going to be adding a $1 choice soon (there is much more changing than that soon).

I have a pretty good understanding of the GNU Public License, the license which you are referring to.  That license allows charging for distribution.  The free-ness that is guaranteed by the GPL is not $$, but instead that the program can be modified freely and redistributed by users.

I hope this proves useful to you!

Thanks,
Corbin


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Thomas Treichl <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Corbin,

  a few days ago I found Octave for Android on Google Play Store and I highly appreciate your port of Octave to that platform. The startup display of Octave always comes up with the question if I want to make a donation and that's where I ask myself: Is it the Core Octave Development team who receives the donation or is it you in person? Can you please clarify that?

  Next, Octave tells me that I can get more packages from Play Store. What I did, I installed Octave ODE Package which didn't work. *hmmm* I thought, ok, something's wrong. But then I found this little sentence at Play Store in the package description which tells me:

  "Currently, only functions if you have made a donation."
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave.ode&hl=de

  Or in my own words I would say: I have to pay for it because I don't really have an option if I want to use them. Have you read the license of these codes?

Best regards

  Thomas

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Re: Octave on Android

John Swensen-3
In reply to this post by c.-2
After looking through https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java I am not convinced that everything needed to get this working is being provided. If you look at the member functions
private void unpackAll(),
private void installPackage(String packageName), and
private boolean updateRequired(String packageName),
it seem apparent that the obfuscated filenames found in the 
directory seem to be the actually binaries created by some other build process that is not included herein. So, essentially this seems to be the terminal launcher for Android that loads shared libraries created with some other build environment that transforms the Octave binaries into the Android package format. I looked through the rest of the build files and other resources and the process of building Octave for ARM and subsequently generating the Android package files is not included in this Github repository (maybe he has another non-public one?).

John Swensen



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:07, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe this is precisely that required source code. This looks like
> the line that you have to change if you want to create a version that
> does not ask for a donation for these two packages:
>
>   https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L232
>
> Corbin, am I correct, or is there more required to build this package?

If that is so that's cool! I'd love to try and build and run Octave on my Galaxy ...
Corbin, can you confirm that evrything I need is on github?

> - Jordi G. H.
c.

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Re: Octave on Android

John Swensen-3



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:07 AM, John Swensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
After looking through https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java I am not convinced that everything needed to get this working is being provided. If you look at the member functions
private void unpackAll(),
private void installPackage(String packageName), and
private boolean updateRequired(String packageName),
it seem apparent that the obfuscated filenames found in the 
directory seem to be the actually binaries created by some other build process that is not included herein. So, essentially this seems to be the terminal launcher for Android that loads shared libraries created with some other build environment that transforms the Octave binaries into the Android package format. I looked through the rest of the build files and other resources and the process of building Octave for ARM and subsequently generating the Android package files is not included in this Github repository (maybe he has another non-public one?).

John Swensen



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:07, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe this is precisely that required source code. This looks like
> the line that you have to change if you want to create a version that
> does not ask for a donation for these two packages:
>
>   https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L232
>
> Corbin, am I correct, or is there more required to build this package?

If that is so that's cool! I'd love to try and build and run Octave on my Galaxy ...
Corbin, can you confirm that evrything I need is on github?

> - Jordi G. H.
c.


Sorry for top-posting on my last one (mental lapse). I am going to give a little added information to my last statement. Many of the files in https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/tree/master/octave/libs/armeabi are not actually shared libraries. Some of them are lists of files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__install_link.so), some of them are m-files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__file999.so) and some of them are binary files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__file0.so). They do appear to just be a renaming/packaging of a cross-compiled tree of an octave build, but as to how this is generated from the build tree I am not exactly sure. Maybe someone with more Android dev experience could point this out.

John Swensen

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Re: Octave on Android

corbinlc



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:24 AM, John Swensen <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:07 AM, John Swensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
After looking through https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java I am not convinced that everything needed to get this working is being provided. If you look at the member functions
private void unpackAll(),
private void installPackage(String packageName), and
private boolean updateRequired(String packageName),
it seem apparent that the obfuscated filenames found in the 
directory seem to be the actually binaries created by some other build process that is not included herein. So, essentially this seems to be the terminal launcher for Android that loads shared libraries created with some other build environment that transforms the Octave binaries into the Android package format. I looked through the rest of the build files and other resources and the process of building Octave for ARM and subsequently generating the Android package files is not included in this Github repository (maybe he has another non-public one?).

John Swensen



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:07, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe this is precisely that required source code. This looks like
> the line that you have to change if you want to create a version that
> does not ask for a donation for these two packages:
>
>   https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/src/com/octave/octaveMain.java#L232
>
> Corbin, am I correct, or is there more required to build this package?

If that is so that's cool! I'd love to try and build and run Octave on my Galaxy ...
Corbin, can you confirm that evrything I need is on github?

> - Jordi G. H.
c.


Sorry for top-posting on my last one (mental lapse). I am going to give a little added information to my last statement. Many of the files in https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/tree/master/octave/libs/armeabi are not actually shared libraries. Some of them are lists of files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__install_link.so), some of them are m-files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__file999.so) and some of them are binary files (e.g. https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/blob/master/octave/libs/armeabi/lib__file0.so). They do appear to just be a renaming/packaging of a cross-compiled tree of an octave build, but as to how this is generated from the build tree I am not exactly sure. Maybe someone with more Android dev experience could point this out.

John Swensen



John Swensen,

Good reverse engineering :)  Please just ask me questions.  I have never tired to be secretive about this project or its code.

The files that are under libs get installed to /data/data/com.octave/lib .  This is not my doing, this is how Android APKs are installed.  Similarly, the libs directory of packages like the ODE package gets put in a similar place.  The java code, then puts these files in a more normal directory tree.

There is no source code modification for any of the packages provided.  The lib directory of a package simply provide a renaming of the files .m and .oct that I get when build a given package.  There were a couple of C code modifications for Octave itself, but those have been pushed back as patches. 

Richard Crozier,

Thank you.  This is the first request I have received for this package and one of the first for any of my work.  I checked and actually, I only had the source code for the octave app pushed up there and not the packages.  I have pushed up the source code for the ODE package, but will push the others later, when I have a few minutes to work on it.  What do you need to build the package or Octave for Android itself:

If you want to recompile Octave for armel, you can do so, in a normal fashion (if there is a normal way to cross compile, I now prefer just creating an ARM image per debootstrap and building in there via QEMU).  The only thing that is required is that you set the prefix properly.  I have pushed some patches described here https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/wiki/Octave-Source-Changes .

You also need eclipse and the android-sdk.  That is about it.

If you are serious, please do try it out and tell me what is missing.  If you are just showing how someone is allowed and is supposed to request source code if they want it, I appreciate the example.  I have a very large change coming to Octave and the packages relatively soon (before Christmas I would guess).  It will make the old way of building obsolete.

This will include: Building things off of stable released .deb files instead of compiling it myself.  More packages (maybe all of them) which will also be more directly based of the .deb files.  No renaming of files and including them as assets instead of libraries.  Moving 90% of the files to the sdcard.  Better plot output handling.  This will provide numerous features and fix various bugs.  It will also be easier to maintain, build and understand. 

Jordi,

Agreed.  I figure anyone can modify the code if they want. 

Thomas,

Was your issue that you could not find the source code and didn't realize, as a user, you could make a request for it?  Or did you think that charging for GPL licensed programs is not allowed (but actually is)?  Trust me, I have struggled over this.  With the various projects I have, I actually have a lot of users and get contacted a lot and am continuously improving my apps (the number of hours I have for this is small, so this may not be obvious).  I expected that others would want to contribute time/skill, but I don't get emails about that.  I get emails about bugs, feature requests and how to do a particular thing.  I also get effectively love letter and hate mail.  I didn't charge for a long time, but I now believe (knowing myself) that I will provide a better product with some small incentive.  I have made that payment requirement have very minimal impact on the users and I have made the source code available so it can be modified.  If you know a little something about Android and my source code, the payment can be bypassed in a couple of ways that doesn't even require source code modification (nothing illegal, just the right file in the right place).  Can we tone this down a bit?  Can you drop your complaint to Google until you are sure there is a valid complaint to be made? 

Thanks everyone,
Corbin
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Re: Octave on Android

c.-2
In reply to this post by corbinlc

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:58, Corbin Champion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why do you think it violates the GPL?  What do you want corrected?  

As far as I am concerned I'd like to be able to build Octave for Android myself using the build system you developed for your distribution.
This is my right under the terms of the GPLv3 license and I'd like to use this right.

> The Octave maintainers are aware of my policy.  

Clearly not all of them where ...
odepkg is not part of Octave but of Octave-Forge which is

> One of their paid staff even encouraged charging.

No one is objecting charging per se,.

But obscuring the source to force users to pay for your packages,
I believe that is in violation of the GPLv3 license and Thomas is the
owner of the copyright of most of the code in the odepkg so he is entitled
to enforce the license.

> Corbin

c.
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Re: Octave on Android

corbinlc
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 9:40 AM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 22 Oct 2013, at 16:58, Corbin Champion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why do you think it violates the GPL?  What do you want corrected?

As far as I am concerned I'd like to be able to build Octave for Android myself using the build system you developed for your distribution.
This is my right under the terms of the GPLv3 license and I'd like to use this right.

> The Octave maintainers are aware of my policy.

Clearly not all of them where ...
odepkg is not part of Octave but of Octave-Forge which is

> One of their paid staff even encouraged charging.

No one is objecting charging per se,.

But obscuring the source to force users to pay for your packages,
I believe that is in violation of the GPLv3 license and Thomas is the
owner of the copyright of most of the code in the odepkg so he is entitled
to enforce the license.

> Corbin

c.


Carlo Defalco,

Please see my latest email.  Please also understand Thomas made no request for the source code.  I thought he was complaining about that there is a fee.  I am in no way hiding my code, though I agree it wasn't all up there, something I can easily fix.  I have and will freely provided it to anyone who has asked (so no GPL violation, it is only a violation if I don't provide it to users who make a request for it).  I am also in no way obscuring anything.  I did what was necessary to fit a standard GNU/Linux program into an Android app.  It took some doing.  Please do try to build it and tell me what is missing. 

Corbin
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Re: Octave on Android

Richard Crozier
In reply to this post by corbinlc

> Richard Crozier,
>
> Thank you.  This is the first request I have received for this package
> and one of the first for any of my work.  I checked and actually, I only
> had the source code for the octave app pushed up there and not the
> packages.  I have pushed up the source code for the ODE package, but
> will push the others later, when I have a few minutes to work on it.

Thanks!

> What do you need to build the package or Octave for Android itself:
>
> If you want to recompile Octave for armel, you can do so, in a normal
> fashion (if there is a normal way to cross compile, I now prefer just
> creating an ARM image per debootstrap and building in there via QEMU).
> The only thing that is required is that you set the prefix properly.  I
> have pushed some patches described here
> https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/wiki/Octave-Source-Changes .
>
> You also need eclipse and the android-sdk.  That is about it.
>
> If you are serious, please do try it out and tell me what is missing.
> If you are just showing how someone is allowed and is supposed to
> request source code if they want it, I appreciate the example.  I have a
> very large change coming to Octave and the packages relatively soon
> (before Christmas I would guess).  It will make the old way of building
> obsolete.
>

I guess I would say I am 75% serious, I might well want to build for
android in the future. I also think you are free to charge for this
stuff if you abide properly by the terms of the GPL (I probably would
pay a $1, perhaps even, say, $3 to have you do it for me rather than do
it myself, whether the build system is available or not, mainly because
I hate the eclipse IDE so much).

Having said this, one might think of all the time the original
maintainer of odepkg spent on the package (probably much longer than you
spent on the packaging) and offer at least to cut him in first. This is
of course not mandated by the GPL, and rather a matter of politeness.

Richard




--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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Re: Octave on Android

c.-2
In reply to this post by corbinlc

On 22 Oct 2013, at 18:51, Corbin Champion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Carlo Defalco,
>
> Please see my latest email.  Please also understand Thomas made no request for the source code.  I thought he was complaining about that there is a fee.  I am in no way hiding my code, though I agree it wasn't all up there, something I can easily fix.  I have and will freely provided it to anyone who has asked (so no GPL violation, it is only a violation if I don't provide it to users who make a request for it).  I am also in no way obscuring anything.  
> I did what was necessary to fit a standard GNU/Linux program into an Android app.

I appreciate your open and collaborative attitude, I think there has just been a slight misunderstanding

The misunderstanding, I believe, is about what is intended by source code.

The GPLv3 license says:

  The “Corresponding Source” for a work in object code form means all the source code needed to generate,
  install, and (for an executable work) run the object code and to modify the work, including scripts to
  control those activities.

What I am interested in are the scripts required to generate and install binaries of Octave and odepkg for Android.
As far as I can understand the code in github only covers the installation part not building, am I correct?

If so, I'd like to ask you to share those scripts, if I am mistaken and you have already made those scripts available
I'd appreciate that you point me to those scripts.

>  It took some doing.  Please do try to build it and tell me what is missing.  

Thank you very much.

> Corbin
c.
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Re: Octave on Android

John Swensen-3



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:17 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 22 Oct 2013, at 18:51, Corbin Champion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Carlo Defalco,
>
> Please see my latest email.  Please also understand Thomas made no request for the source code.  I thought he was complaining about that there is a fee.  I am in no way hiding my code, though I agree it wasn't all up there, something I can easily fix.  I have and will freely provided it to anyone who has asked (so no GPL violation, it is only a violation if I don't provide it to users who make a request for it).  I am also in no way obscuring anything.
> I did what was necessary to fit a standard GNU/Linux program into an Android app.

I appreciate your open and collaborative attitude, I think there has just been a slight misunderstanding

The misunderstanding, I believe, is about what is intended by source code.

The GPLv3 license says:

  The “Corresponding Source” for a work in object code form means all the source code needed to generate,
  install, and (for an executable work) run the object code and to modify the work, including scripts to
  control those activities.

What I am interested in are the scripts required to generate and install binaries of Octave and odepkg for Android.
As far as I can understand the code in github only covers the installation part not building, am I correct?

If so, I'd like to ask you to share those scripts, if I am mistaken and you have already made those scripts available
I'd appreciate that you point me to those scripts.

>  It took some doing.  Please do try to build it and tell me what is missing.

Thank you very much.

> Corbin
c.

c.,
This is actually the easier part (assuming you have installed the Android SDK with the cross compilation tools). I have built a lot of GPL libraries/programs that use autotool for iOS and it is as simple as running the configure script pointing to the cross-compiler toolchain.
And example of a script that does this can be found at https://gist.github.com/nddrylliog/4688209

Corbin,
Thanks for your replies, it clarified a lot. The one thing I am still confused about after looking through the Eclipse project files is how you go from the cross-compiled toolchain and packages to the .so files in the libs directory. I see the various project and manifest files, but none of them seem to point to an octave build tree or the octave-forge package directories. A little more clarification along these lines would be awesome. Thanks.

John Swensen
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Re: Octave on Android

corbinlc
In reply to this post by Richard Crozier
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Richard Crozier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Richard Crozier,

Thank you.  This is the first request I have received for this package
and one of the first for any of my work.  I checked and actually, I only
had the source code for the octave app pushed up there and not the
packages.  I have pushed up the source code for the ODE package, but
will push the others later, when I have a few minutes to work on it.

Thanks!


What do you need to build the package or Octave for Android itself:

If you want to recompile Octave for armel, you can do so, in a normal
fashion (if there is a normal way to cross compile, I now prefer just
creating an ARM image per debootstrap and building in there via QEMU).
The only thing that is required is that you set the prefix properly.  I
have pushed some patches described here
https://github.com/corbinlc/octave4android/wiki/Octave-Source-Changes .

You also need eclipse and the android-sdk.  That is about it.

If you are serious, please do try it out and tell me what is missing.
If you are just showing how someone is allowed and is supposed to
request source code if they want it, I appreciate the example.  I have a
very large change coming to Octave and the packages relatively soon
(before Christmas I would guess).  It will make the old way of building
obsolete.


I guess I would say I am 75% serious, I might well want to build for android in the future. I also think you are free to charge for this stuff if you abide properly by the terms of the GPL (I probably would pay a $1, perhaps even, say, $3 to have you do it for me rather than do it myself, whether the build system is available or not, mainly because I hate the eclipse IDE so much).

Having said this, one might think of all the time the original maintainer of odepkg spent on the package (probably much longer than you spent on the packaging) and offer at least to cut him in first. This is of course not mandated by the GPL, and rather a matter of politeness.

Richard





--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


Richard,

Please tell me what else you need.  It is possible to build without Eclipse, I just haven't looked into it (you will have to do that research).

As far as cutting Thomas in... the choice to charge for the ODE and financial packages was a arbitrary one.  Very few people were contributing, so I decided to provide incentive for people to do so.  I didn't want to impact some already existing feature, so I charged for the new packages I was adding only.  In principle, I agree in giving back though.  I give back in many ways, including to some free software projects.

I wasn't planning on asking or even discussing how I plan to give back, specifically related to this, to others, until the next release.  I will let the details be a mystery until the new version comes out, but there will be a form of tithing back to the projects my projects are based on.  Don't anyone get too excited, this is not a large amount. 

Thanks,
Corbin
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Re: Octave on Android

Thomas Treichl-3
In reply to this post by corbinlc
> Thomas,
>
> Was your issue that you could not find the source code and didn't
> realize, as a user, you could make a request for it?  Or did you think
> that charging for GPL licensed programs is not allowed (but actually
> is)?  Trust me, I have struggled over this.  With the various projects I
> have, I actually have a lot of users and get contacted a lot and am
> continuously improving my apps (the number of hours I have for this is
> small, so this may not be obvious).  I expected that others would want
> to contribute time/skill, but I don't get emails about that.  I get
> emails about bugs, feature requests and how to do a particular thing.  I
> also get effectively love letter and hate mail.  I didn't charge for a
> long time, but I now believe (knowing myself) that I will provide a
> better product with some small incentive.  I have made that payment
> requirement have very minimal impact on the users and I have made the
> source code available so it can be modified.  If you know a little
> something about Android and my source code, the payment can be bypassed
> in a couple of ways that doesn't even require source code modification
> (nothing illegal, just the right file in the right place).  Can we tone
> this down a bit?  Can you drop your complaint to Google until you are
> sure there is a valid complaint to be made?
>
> Thanks everyone,
> Corbin

Dear Corbin,

   you must know that I'm the very last person who won't come to an
happy end here. Once again, I'm not talking about GNU Octave Core, the
Core Developers can speak for themselves, I'm talking about OdePkg 0.8.2.

   I'm not very fast in answering emails and meanwhile a lot of people
already have replied, but let's turn time back a few hours to explain my
point of view this morning:

- Doing a quick
     find . -iname ode23.m
   on my tab gave as a result: surprisingly nothing.

- Doing a quick
     grep -re "ode23" *
   on my tab gave as a result: <whereever>/lib__file5.so

I thought: *hm* binary. Next I got the answer from you:

- You wrote:" require donation" and I thought: definitely no.

- You wrote:" at least $1" and I thought: not even 1c and "especially
not" if distributed in binary form.

Next I've taken a look at your repo: no OdePkg modifications found *hm*
after that my answer followed.

Now, what I want you to do is:

- Please make all the necessary modifications and scripts available that
are needed to build OdePkg 0.8.2 as pushed as a package to Google's Play
Store. I want to have a look at the codes.

- make a binary package of OdePkg or of GNU Octave that doesn't "require
donation" to run OdePkg, modify the website at Google Play Store that
clearly does not say "Currently, only functions if you have made a
donation." but something about "Free as in Freedom".

- make a donation to the Core Octave Development team here
     http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/donate.html
   about any amount that you think honours OdePkg 0.8.2 from the amount
that you've gotten AND really do it!

Best Regards

   Thomas

PS. About that Google ticket: I can't stop that tank at the moment but
once I get contacted I'll tell them that we're in a friendly solving way
right here on the list - maybe you should do the same.
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