Octave v4.4 in PPA

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Octave v4.4 in PPA

Richard Crozier
Dear list,

Are there any plans to update the "GNU Octave stable releases" Ubuntu
ppa with the latest release (4.4)? I might be able to help with this if
there are specific tasks that need done to make this happen.

Regards,

Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Oliver Heimlich
Am 29. Mai 2018 14:28:05 MESZ schrieb Richard Crozier <[hidden email]>:

>Dear list,
>
>Are there any plans to update the "GNU Octave stable releases" Ubuntu
>ppa with the latest release (4.4)? I might be able to help with this if
>
>there are specific tasks that need done to make this happen.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard

Dear Richard,

I guess that the Ubuntu PPA will be updated after upgrading Octave to version 4.4 in Debian.

The latter is currently delayed, because several Octave Forge packages are not compatible with Octave 4.4 anymore. There has been some progress lately with new package releases on Octave Forge. IIRC, these haven't been pushed in Debian yet. Also some packages still might need some work to become compatible with Octave 4.4.

Best
Oliver

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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Richard Crozier


On 29/05/18 14:11, Oliver Heimlich wrote:

> Am 29. Mai 2018 14:28:05 MESZ schrieb Richard Crozier <[hidden email]>:
>> Dear list,
>>
>> Are there any plans to update the "GNU Octave stable releases" Ubuntu
>> ppa with the latest release (4.4)? I might be able to help with this if
>>
>> there are specific tasks that need done to make this happen.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> I guess that the Ubuntu PPA will be updated after upgrading Octave to version 4.4 in Debian.
>

really? I thought one of the purposes of an Ubuntu PPA (Personal Package
Archive) was to make the latest versions of a package available before
it was packaged officially in a distribution.


> The latter is currently delayed, because several Octave Forge packages are not compatible with Octave 4.4 anymore. There has been some progress lately with new package releases on Octave Forge. IIRC, these haven't been pushed in Debian yet. Also some packages still might need some work to become compatible with Octave 4.4.
>
> Best
> Oliver
>

For a PPA which users have to actively seek out and install, I think
there might be less expectation of every forge package working
correctly. It would be nice to at least have the option to use the
latest release in a relatively easy way. I'm asking because I have a
user who wants to use some software I've written which only works in 4.4
and it's really quite difficult to get 4.4 if you don't build it
yourself from source, which is non-trivial for the average user.

I also think it's a pity that it's actually easier to get Octave 4.4 for
Windows than Ubuntu.

Having said all that, I realise there is significant work in maintaining
a ppa, hence the offer of help if possible.

Richard





--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

avlas-2
El dimarts, 29 de maig de 2018, a les 9:25:18 EDT, Richard Crozier va escriure:

 
  On 29/05/18 14:11, Oliver Heimlich wrote:
  > Am 29. Mai 2018 14:28:05 MESZ schrieb Richard Crozier <[hidden email]>:
  >> Dear list,
  >>
  >> Are there any plans to update the "GNU Octave stable releases" Ubuntu
  >> ppa with the latest release (4.4)? I might be able to help with this if
  >>
  >> there are specific tasks that need done to make this happen.
  >>
  >> Regards,
  >>
  >> Richard
  >
  > Dear Richard,
  >
  > I guess that the Ubuntu PPA will be updated after upgrading Octave to version 4.4 in Debian.
  >
 
  really? I thought one of the purposes of an Ubuntu PPA (Personal Package
  Archive) was to make the latest versions of a package available before
  it was packaged officially in a distribution.
 
 
  > The latter is currently delayed, because several Octave Forge packages are not compatible with Octave 4.4 anymore. There has been some progress lately with new package releases on Octave Forge. IIRC, these haven't been pushed in Debian yet. Also some packages still might need some work to become compatible with Octave 4.4.
  >
  > Best
  > Oliver
  >
 
  For a PPA which users have to actively seek out and install, I think
  there might be less expectation of every forge package working
  correctly. It would be nice to at least have the option to use the
  latest release in a relatively easy way. I'm asking because I have a
  user who wants to use some software I've written which only works in 4.4
  and it's really quite difficult to get 4.4 if you don't build it
  yourself from source, which is non-trivial for the average user.
 
  I also think it's a pity that it's actually easier to get Octave 4.4 for
  Windows than Ubuntu.
 
  Having said all that, I realise there is significant work in maintaining
  a ppa, hence the offer of help if possible.
 
  Richard
 

I used to use the ppa but now there is a flatpak package, which may replace it: https://github.com/flathub/org.octave.Octave

....
a.



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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Mike Miller-4
In reply to this post by Richard Crozier
On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 14:25:18 +0100, Richard Crozier wrote:
> really? I thought one of the purposes of an Ubuntu PPA (Personal Package
> Archive) was to make the latest versions of a package available before it
> was packaged officially in a distribution.

That is one of the purposes of some PPAs, but not this PPA.

The purpose of this PPA is to backport the latest packaged version of
Octave in Ubuntu's development release to the LTS releases. The current
version of Octave in Ubuntu 18.10 is 4.2.2.

> For a PPA which users have to actively seek out and install, I think there
> might be less expectation of every forge package working correctly. It would
> be nice to at least have the option to use the latest release in a
> relatively easy way. I'm asking because I have a user who wants to use some
> software I've written which only works in 4.4 and it's really quite
> difficult to get 4.4 if you don't build it yourself from source, which is
> non-trivial for the average user.

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 09:33:30 -0400, avlas wrote:
> I used to use the ppa but now there is a flatpak package, which may
> replace it: https://github.com/flathub/org.octave.Octave

Yes, I also recommend you take a look at the Flatpak package instead of
the PPA, which will give you the latest version of Octave immediately on
any distribution.

--
mike

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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Richard Crozier


On 29/05/18 17:14, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 14:25:18 +0100, Richard Crozier wrote:
>> really? I thought one of the purposes of an Ubuntu PPA (Personal Package
>> Archive) was to make the latest versions of a package available before it
>> was packaged officially in a distribution.
>
> That is one of the purposes of some PPAs, but not this PPA.
>
> The purpose of this PPA is to backport the latest packaged version of
> Octave in Ubuntu's development release to the LTS releases. The current
> version of Octave in Ubuntu 18.10 is 4.2.2.
>
>> For a PPA which users have to actively seek out and install, I think there
>> might be less expectation of every forge package working correctly. It would
>> be nice to at least have the option to use the latest release in a
>> relatively easy way. I'm asking because I have a user who wants to use some
>> software I've written which only works in 4.4 and it's really quite
>> difficult to get 4.4 if you don't build it yourself from source, which is
>> non-trivial for the average user.
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 09:33:30 -0400, avlas wrote:
>> I used to use the ppa but now there is a flatpak package, which may
>> replace it: https://github.com/flathub/org.octave.Octave
>
> Yes, I also recommend you take a look at the Flatpak package instead of
> the PPA, which will give you the latest version of Octave immediately on
> any distribution.
>

I recognise that Flatpak is the better option in principle, but it is
not available on Ubuntu 14.04 which is an LTS release which is supported
until 2019.

Regarding Flatpak, I saw there is some sandboxing for Flatpak
applications, can Octave access system libraries (in /usr/local I mean)
and so on for linking to oct/mex files? Also, can octave use sockets
when installed with Flatpak to communicate with non-Flatpak applications?

I couldn't find any specific information on this, and I'm using Mint
Linux 17.3 (based off Ubuntu 14.04) so I can't install it to just try
for myself.

Thanks,

Richard



--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Mike Miller-4
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 09:07:32 +0100, Richard Crozier wrote:
> I recognise that Flatpak is the better option in principle, but it is not
> available on Ubuntu 14.04 which is an LTS release which is supported until
> 2019.

For the same reasons that Flatpak is not available for Ubuntu 14.04, it
becomes harder and harder to backport new native packages to stale
releases, whether they have hit EOL or not. Supported until 2019 only
applies to the Ubuntu main repository, everything else is optional.

I do hope that Flatpak and Snap will make this backporting problem
obsolete for most users, but users do have to first be on a stable
platform that supports Flatpak (GLib 2.44, released March 2015).

> Regarding Flatpak, I saw there is some sandboxing for Flatpak applications,
> can Octave access system libraries (in /usr/local I mean) and so on for
> linking to oct/mex files? Also, can octave use sockets when installed with
> Flatpak to communicate with non-Flatpak applications?

It cannot access system libraries installed in /usr or /usr/local by
design, but it can access anything in your home directory.

I'm not entirely sure if the Flatpak developers have a plan to deal with
applications that are extendable or pluggable requiring additional
libraries.

Network sockets are shared with the host so Octave can communicate with
native local services and applications.

--
mike

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Re: Octave v4.4 in PPA

Richard Crozier


On 30/05/18 17:12, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 09:07:32 +0100, Richard Crozier wrote:
>
> It cannot access system libraries installed in /usr or /usr/local by
> design, but it can access anything in your home directory.
>
> I'm not entirely sure if the Flatpak developers have a plan to deal with
> applications that are extendable or pluggable requiring additional
> libraries.
>


Thanks for the info, this could be a bit of a problem for me (and my
users). As an example I have developed an interface to the MBDyn
multibody dynamics package (the interface is available on sourceforge if
anyone's interested). This is based on a mex files which must link to
the installed mbdyn libraries. I also have other interfaces to things
like gsl etc. I guess it's something to ask the Flatpak developers. Will
things like the octave netcdf package work, since it requires to link
with the local netcdf libraries? I imagine quite a few packages could
have problems with this?


> Network sockets are shared with the host so Octave can communicate with
> native local services and applications.
>

ok thanks

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.