Problems with QtOctave

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Problems with QtOctave

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso
On 1 September 2010 16:06, David Grundberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I have used QtOctave and I admire those trying to develop it but I
>> encountered many bugs (I have posted here before to explore whether the bugs
>> lay with QtOctave or Octave). Personally, I would not recommend it at its
>> current stage of development.
>>
>
> I tried it three years ago and made the same conclusion then, I'm sorry
> to say.  The big problem I had with it was how it was just piping data
> from/to Octave.

When QtOctave was first announced and discussed, this problem was
brought up. The octave_server class in OctaveDE was written as an
alternative, and I do believe some patches into Octave proper were
accepted in order to make the octave_server class work (I may be
misremembering here).

It's a pity, because Qt is visually nicer than GTK+ on nonfree
systems, and that visual niceness gives people warm fuzzy feelings
about Octave. This is mostly why I maintain QtOctave for Debian, even
if I don't use it myself.

The QtOctave original developer has expressed that he's very busy
right now, so if we want to fix it, it's up to us. As far as I can
tell, QtOctave's own mailing lists[1] are almost dead. I submitted a
patch for a minor bug maybe a couple of weeks ago to the original
developer, and was ignored. It's going to go the way of Octave
Workshop and all the other countless abandoned Octave "GUI"s. It would
be good if a GUI could work well enough for Octave for it to be
officially endorsed. The white on black terminal window that users of
nonfree systems associate with an operating system of the past century
gives Octave some bad publicity.

I'm thinking, it might be time to fork? QtOctave isn't bad, and as far
as the Qt programming is concerned, it's good. It's just the "Octave"
in QtOctave that needs more work.

- Jordi G. H.

[1] http://groups.google.com/group/qtoctave-english and
http://groups.google.com/group/qtoctave-espanol

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

David Grundberg-3
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso skrev:

> On 1 September 2010 16:06, David Grundberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have used QtOctave and I admire those trying to develop it but I
>>> encountered many bugs (I have posted here before to explore whether the bugs
>>> lay with QtOctave or Octave). Personally, I would not recommend it at its
>>> current stage of development.
>>>
>> I tried it three years ago and made the same conclusion then, I'm sorry
>> to say.  The big problem I had with it was how it was just piping data
>> from/to Octave.
>
> When QtOctave was first announced and discussed, this problem was
> brought up. The octave_server class in OctaveDE was written as an
> alternative, and I do believe some patches into Octave proper were
> accepted in order to make the octave_server class work (I may be
> misremembering here).
>
> It's a pity, because Qt is visually nicer than GTK+ on nonfree
> systems, and that visual niceness gives people warm fuzzy feelings
> about Octave. This is mostly why I maintain QtOctave for Debian, even
> if I don't use it myself.
>
> The QtOctave original developer has expressed that he's very busy
> right now, so if we want to fix it, it's up to us. As far as I can
> tell, QtOctave's own mailing lists[1] are almost dead. I submitted a
> patch for a minor bug maybe a couple of weeks ago to the original
> developer, and was ignored. It's going to go the way of Octave
> Workshop and all the other countless abandoned Octave "GUI"s. It would
> be good if a GUI could work well enough for Octave for it to be
> officially endorsed. The white on black terminal window that users of
> nonfree systems associate with an operating system of the past century
> gives Octave some bad publicity.
>
> I'm thinking, it might be time to fork? QtOctave isn't bad, and as far
> as the Qt programming is concerned, it's good. It's just the "Octave"
> in QtOctave that needs more work.
>
> - Jordi G. H.
>
> [1] http://groups.google.com/group/qtoctave-english and
> http://groups.google.com/group/qtoctave-espanol

I think we have to think about the overall strategy here.  We want
people to use Octave in the most efficient way.  I think it's clear that
we don't want to write yet another text editor.  Basically, writing an
IDE for every single language is a rather bad idea, a construct from
history.  And it would require resources we don't have (it seems).

People are asking for something to replace the proprietary user
interface, and maybe we can give them what they want without cloning
that said interface.  Because we had a couple of tries at cloning now,
as you mentioned, and they were very hard to pull off.  Maybe we can
give users what they want, but not what they are asking for?

So one way to reach out would be to write an Eclipse plugin.  That way
we could reach people that want some IDE.  Or Anjuta.  Or KDevelop.

But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32.  Actually,
just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?

Grundberg
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

tmacchant
Hello

--- David Grundberg wrote:

> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32. Actually,
> just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
> a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
> should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?

Octave on MinGW is "true win32".  Octave on MinGW32 is now working on win32 command prompt.
Tools like readline, ncursus etc for win32 are prepared by Benjamin.

For copy and paste, quick edit mode is useful.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282301

Although command prompt with quick edit mode is not useful as terminal emulator on unixy environments,
it is not necessary required for windows.

Regards
Tatsuro

> Grundberg
> _______________________________________________
> Help-octave mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave
>


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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Michael Goffioul
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
2010/9/2 David Grundberg <[hidden email]>:
> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32.

Not true. I'm compiling OctaveDE with MSVC and it's running fine.
I even shipped an experimental version in one of my Windows binaries.

Michael.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

martin_helm
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010, 08:05:18 schrieb David Grundberg:
>
> So one way to reach out would be to write an Eclipse plugin.  That way
> we could reach people that want some IDE.  Or Anjuta.  Or KDevelop.
>

Just as a side note: Attempts for plugins exist (or existed) an example is
octclipse for eclipse (http://sourceforge.net/projects/octclipse/files/) as
one can see it had a very short live. I remember there was another one but
cannot even remember the name.

- Martin
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Laurent Hoeltgen
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
Hi

>
> I think we have to think about the overall strategy here.  We want
> people to use Octave in the most efficient way.  I think it's clear that
> we don't want to write yet another text editor.  Basically, writing an
> IDE for every single language is a rather bad idea, a construct from
> history.  And it would require resources we don't have (it seems).
>
> People are asking for something to replace the proprietary user
> interface, and maybe we can give them what they want without cloning
> that said interface.  Because we had a couple of tries at cloning now,
> as you mentioned, and they were very hard to pull off.  Maybe we can
> give users what they want, but not what they are asking for?
>
> So one way to reach out would be to write an Eclipse plugin.  That way
> we could reach people that want some IDE.  Or Anjuta.  Or KDevelop.
>
> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32.  Actually,
> just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
> a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
> should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?
>
> Grundberg

Somebody on this Mailing list mentioned Cantor
(http://edu.kde.org/cantor/) some time ago. I think it's an interesting
approach to have a single frontend for different backends. Maybe it's
worth to consider that one as well.

Greetings,
Laurent.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

David Grundberg-3
In reply to this post by Michael Goffioul
Michael Goffioul skrev:

> 2010/9/2 David Grundberg <[hidden email]>:
>> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
>> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
>> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
>> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32.
>
> Not true. I'm compiling OctaveDE with MSVC and it's running fine.
> I even shipped an experimental version in one of my Windows binaries.
>
> Michael.

Glad to hear that.  I tried compiling OctaveDE on mingw and didn't have
much luck.  Crazy amount of dependencies to build.  The terminal gtk
widget was the show stopper, I couldn't get it built.

Grundberg
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

David Grundberg-3
In reply to this post by tmacchant
Tatsuro MATSUOKA skrev:

> Hello
>
> --- David Grundberg wrote:
>
>> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
>> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
>> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
>> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32. Actually,
>> just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
>> a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
>> should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?
>
> Octave on MinGW is "true win32".  Octave on MinGW32 is now working on win32 command prompt.
> Tools like readline, ncursus etc for win32 are prepared by Benjamin.
>

Yes, I know.  I've compiled Octave on mingw myself.  I was referring to
OctaveDE, where I wasn't as lucky.  But apparently I was wrong.
OctaveDE can be built on mingw.  I just didn't try hard enough, or
something.

> For copy and paste, quick edit mode is useful.
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282301
>
> Although command prompt with quick edit mode is not useful as terminal emulator on unixy environments,
> it is not necessary required for windows.
>

Yeah.  But it's still pretty terrible compared to a terminal emulator :)
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
2010/9/2 David Grundberg <[hidden email]>:
> So one way to reach out would be to write an Eclipse plugin.  That way
> we could reach people that want some IDE.  Or Anjuta.  Or KDevelop.

Or Emacs. But that was called too "macho"?

> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> functionality.

Not necessarily... readline is fairly opaque and undiscoverable unless
you go out of your way to learn how to use it. I like it this way, but
people who are looking for something like QtOctave don't.

An alternative is to ditch the CLI interface altogether and to do
something more like a worksheet interface, like what some CASes do.
Say, for example, wxMaxima. Fundamentally, Maxima is a REPL like
Octave and its "native" interface is almost the same. On the other
hand, wxMaxima works like a worksheet, where instead of using readline
for digging through the history, you just visually scroll up and edit
whatever command is there.

On 2 September 2010 05:22, Laurent Hoeltgen <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Somebody on this Mailing list mentioned Cantor
> (http://edu.kde.org/cantor/) some time ago. I think it's an
> interesting approach to have a single frontend for different
> backends. Maybe it's worth to consider that one as well.

This looks exactly what I'm talking about. I tried it with R, and it
looks nice. Since it's Qt, it also fits very nice into my Gnome
environment, and presumably will also look nice on other systems. It
doesn't have an Octave backend, though. It also doesn't have the cruft
that other Matlab-interface clones have that people seem to like:

   1) A command list. The worksheet interface makes this mostly
     superfluous.

   2) A list of defined variables. For some reason, it looks like
      people are happy without this list for other mathematical
      programs.

   3) Its own editor for scripts. Other programs seem to rely less on
      scripts than Octave, so perhaps that's why people want it less?
      I'm surprised that people would be satisfied using R this way,
      though.

   4) A filesystem browser. Related to above, because you'll have many
      scripts you'd want to edit.

People might be happy without this and with a worksheet interface
instead, if it works for R. Or they may want the actual Matlab
interface doppelgänger, which I think so far QtOctave mimics best (I
haven't gotten around to seeing how OctaveDE has progressed).

I wish we had some sort of actual data of what people want, because I
don't want any of this myself, but I want to please people who are put
off by white text command prompt on a black background. Inverting the
colours seems to help, actually, because people don't associate them
in that case with "something's wrong".

- Jordi G. H.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Laurent Hoeltgen
Hi,

>
> On 2 September 2010 05:22, Laurent Hoeltgen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Somebody on this Mailing list mentioned Cantor
> > (http://edu.kde.org/cantor/) some time ago. I think it's an
> > interesting approach to have a single frontend for different
> > backends. Maybe it's worth to consider that one as well.
>
> This looks exactly what I'm talking about. I tried it with R, and it
> looks nice. Since it's Qt, it also fits very nice into my Gnome
> environment, and presumably will also look nice on other systems. It
> doesn't have an Octave backend, though. It also doesn't have the cruft
> that other Matlab-interface clones have that people seem to like:

Somebody is working on a octave backend. See
http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdeedu/cantor/src/backends/
There's some code, but it seems to be fairly recent.

Greetings,
Laurent


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Re: Problems with QtOctave

forkandwait
In reply to this post by Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
> 2010/9/2 David Grundberg <davidg <at> cs.umu.se>:
> > So one way to reach out would be to write an Eclipse plugin.  That way
> > we could reach people that want some IDE.  Or Anjuta.  Or KDevelop.
>
> Or Emacs. But that was called too "macho"?

Doesn't octave-mode support a interactive window, like ESS (at least in theory)?

Re macho -- maybe someone has to worry about non-macho users, but anyone who
might say the word "eigenvalue" should be macho enough to be able to type code
at a prompt...  

> An alternative is to ditch the CLI interface altogether and to do
> something more like a worksheet interface, like what some CASes do.
> Say, for example, wxMaxima. Fundamentally, Maxima is a REPL like
> Octave and its "native" interface is almost the same. On the other
> hand, wxMaxima works like a worksheet, where instead of using readline
> for digging through the history, you just visually scroll up and edit
> whatever command is there.

Ack! Please don't even say "ditch the CLI interface" -- that's crazy talk.
Maybe supplement it, maybe wrap it in some weird interface so that un-macho
windows users don't freak out, but don't ditch it.  I personally far prefer to
type pwd and dir once in a while than deal with a bunch of crufty garbage
supposedly helping me.

However, I see no reason to emulate the proprietary windows interface with its
slow, icky TOC etc (Java?  I guess everyone was doing it at the time...).

> On 2 September 2010 05:22, Laurent Hoeltgen <hoeltgman <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Somebody on this Mailing list mentioned Cantor
> > (http://edu.kde.org/cantor/) some time ago. I think it's an
> > interesting approach to have a single frontend for different
> > backends. Maybe it's worth to consider that one as well.
>
> This looks exactly what I'm talking about. I tried it with R, and it
> looks nice. Since it's Qt, it also fits very nice into my Gnome
> environment, and presumably will also look nice on other systems. It
> doesn't have an Octave backend, though. It also doesn't have the cruft
> that other Matlab-interface clones have that people seem to like:

Hmm.  I will look at Cantor and give my fairly unimportant opinion of it.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Michael Goffioul
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:40 PM, David Grundberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes, I know.  I've compiled Octave on mingw myself.  I was referring to
> OctaveDE, where I wasn't as lucky.  But apparently I was wrong.
> OctaveDE can be built on mingw.  I just didn't try hard enough, or
> something.

The fact that I can compile it under MSVC doesn't necessarily mean
that you'll be able to compile it out of the box on MinGW. To make it
work, I actually had to hack libvte (a lot) and readline (a little):
- implement a pipe-based communication instead of pty
- implement a native Win32 renderer for libvte (for performance
reasons, the default pango+cairo rendere being way too slow)
- implement custom terminal resize support in readline

Part of these have never been published.

Michael.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

pathematica
In reply to this post by forkandwait
Please excuse another long post. I wish to offer some thoughts as a user of Octave working in a non-IT and non-mathematical environment.

The discussion prompted by the question about the choice of editor has been fascinating.

The arguments in favour of using Emacs and Vim rather than mimics of word processors are undeniable.

As noted by others, the knowledge of eigenvalues and their value implies an ability to code at a prompt in a terminal. I am sure that I could learn how to use Emacs or Vim (it would seem sensible to make a choice of one of them and learn that well). It is an aspiration that is unlikely to materialize.

The problem comes down to experience and available time. How does someone know their name? Because it is used often and rehearsal leads to familiarity. I work in a field in which I have no choice but to use proprietary word processors (and other proprietary software) to support what I do. I have learned mathematics in my own time (through the Open University) and I want to use it to improve certain aspects of the field in which I operate, which (even though it is nominally based on scientific principles and is allegedly evidence based) is largely populated by well educated people with surprisingly little insight into the most basic of mathematical models.

I know that I could learn to use Emacs or Vim. I have limited time to code (squeezed into gaps between other commitments in a busy job that consumes much more time than the 40 hour week). I know what I want to code to illustrate certain principles to my colleagues. I consider that I can do this most efficiently by picking up a text editor that behaves in a way that responds to the instincts forced upon me (not through choice) by the routines of my "day job". All the while I feel saddened that I do not have the time to become proficient in one of the powerful development editors (or, rather, it would not seem an efficient use of my time to do this). However, without (time available for) rehearsal, every precious coding session would include a period remembering infrequently used escape sequences. At least I live in the world of GNU Linux and Octave in my own time. I can see how much better things are compared with the proprietary world I am forced to endure at work. It saddens me but I have no choice.

I think another problem lies with various Higher Educational establishments. I wish the Open University would use open source tools. When I took my degree (quite recently) the various maths and statistics courses used Mathcad (the main tool - old versions were circulated, presumably to make it cheaper) and, on some modules, student versions of minitab, SPSS and Genstat. WinBUGS was used on one course so maybe there is some hope. Written work was expected from a word processor (rather than eg LaTeX) even in mathematics. The use of "MathType" was encouraged for equation setting, which is very frustrating.

I suspect that, at least for the present, the best use of my time would be to learn the syntax of Octave (and other open source gems such as R) to exploit the knowledge obtained using various proprietary products (for example to find eigenvectors!).

Anyway, thank you for Octave. I am entirely happy with the current available front ends and anything that makes mathematical doodling "easier" would be nothing more than a bonus.  Perhaps one day I will have the opportunity to become proficient in Emacs or Vim.
However good you think Octave is, it's much, much better.
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

pathematica
There is another point that has echoes from the Preface of the manual. It is noted that Octave was developed so that students of chemical engineering could concentrate on understanding the principles of that field rather than debug Fortran code.

There is a tension between leaving Octave in a form that makes it a powerful tool suitable for exploitation by those that understand the significance of the operations it undertakes and providing "short cut" functions that speed things up but allow gaps in knowledge. For example, recently I calculated principle components long hand only subsequently to find that there exist useful functions in an add on package. I consider that functions missing from Octave compared with Matlab, (eg routines for some boundary value problems) do not spoil Octave as the problems might be solved directly providing the necessary insight exists. These are useful areas to invest time as the reward (mathematical insight) is worthwhile.

I contrast, whilst I greatly admire Emacs and Vim and I wished I had the skills to use them, unfortunately I don't think it would be a good use of my time.
However good you think Octave is, it's much, much better.
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

CdeMills
pathematica wrote
I contrast, whilst I greatly admire Emacs and Vim and I wished I had the skills to use them, unfortunately I don't think it would be a good use of my time.
You could have said that ten years ago. Since a few years, Emacs has a traditional GUI interface. You don't have to learn all the magic keystrokes, you bring the cursor on the menu, click, get the next item, and so on. And octave-mode in Emacs is invaluable to colorize and tabiffy the right way your code. When I hit enter and see a badly indented line, I know something weird happened, badly closed parenthesis,, unclosed if - endif blocks, and the like. To me, Emacs learning curve is not that high, and the added-value much worth the time you'll spend learning it.

Regards

Pascal
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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Francesco Potortì
>pathematica wrote:
>> I contrast, whilst I greatly admire Emacs and Vim and I wished I had the
>> skills to use them, unfortunately I don't think it would be a good use of
>> my time.
>>
>You could have said that ten years ago. Since a few years, Emacs has a
>traditional GUI interface. You don't have to learn all the magic keystrokes,
>you bring the cursor on the menu, click, get the next item, and so on.

In fact, you do not have to learn anything to use it as any other
editor, just try it and you will see.  And with time, one step at a
time, if you wish, you can learn to use its other features.

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Re: Problems with QtOctave

Michael Grossbach
Francesco Potortì wrote:

>> pathematica wrote:
>>> I contrast, whilst I greatly admire Emacs and Vim and I wished I had the
>>> skills to use them, unfortunately I don't think it would be a good use of
>>> my time.
>>>
>> You could have said that ten years ago. Since a few years, Emacs has a
>> traditional GUI interface. You don't have to learn all the magic keystrokes,
>> you bring the cursor on the menu, click, get the next item, and so on.
>
> In fact, you do not have to learn anything to use it as any other
> editor, just try it and you will see.  And with time, one step at a
> time, if you wish, you can learn to use its other features.
>
I second this! I just started using Emacs pointing and clicking with the
mouse. Once accustomed I started thinking that there must be an easier
way to accomplish this or that, so i just started looking up the
respective short cuts or key strokes for the most used functions. And
this knowledge is still growing day by day, partly thanks to this
mailing list!

Michael


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Re: Problems with QtOctave

forkandwait
In reply to this post by Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh <at> gmail.com> writes:


>
> An alternative is to ditch the CLI interface altogether and to do
> something more like a worksheet interface, like what some CASes do.
> Say, for example, wxMaxima.

I know I already replied to this, but I wanted to mention that sometimes regular
windows and unix users talk at cross purposes about user interfaces without
knowing it.

My preferred system is FreeBSD, and if I am doing data analysis, I will fire up
X Windows, open emacs, two terminals, and a web browser.  In emeacs, I edit
stuff and write functions, in terminal #1 I run octave, and in terminal #2 I run
various unix utilities to process data (curl to snarf from the WWW or ftp, sed
to reprocess text, ls -ltr to see what is up with my filesystem after I generate
a bunch of output, etc).  Occasionally I run gnumeric from terminal #2 to view a
table.  I use addpath() appropriately so that when I save a function I wrote in
emacs, I can automatically access it in Octave.  When I get really fancy, I use
makefiles to organize a data analysis workflow with shebang driven octave
scripts (not possible in the proprietary version).  Since it is unix, all this
stuff works together famously under the idea of "current working directory" ....

.... but in Windows, it is another ball of wax.  Since it isn't designed like an
erector-set where all the pieces fit, one often finds oneself wishing for an
"IDE" where everything DOES fit.

So, I think us Unix types are disinclined to bother with any additions to the UI
since readline and X and everything else fits together to make their own IDE,
and any additions would disrupt the ability to interlock components however we
see fit.  But for a windows environment, it would be really nice to have a way
to grep files AND set up a Makefile AND edit functions etc.

I am not sure this is useful, but I think working on a UI for windows users (me
at work) is worthwhile, but for Unix users (me when I get to choose my OS) is
not so important.  I also think separating the environments mentally is
important when we discuss UI's.

Forcing people to use a complex UI makes it impossible to write non-interactive
scripts and to customize the various components -- this would be very, very bad.




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Re: Problems with QtOctave

tmacchant
In reply to this post by David Grundberg-3
Hello

I have found that command console wrapper software 'cmd-mod' is still developing states.
original program is 'ckw', which is famous in Japan but the development is stopped.
Fortunately the development seems to be continued by another person.

The licence of it is
GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 2


http://github.com/deflis/ckw-mod

Clicking 'Download' tab you can go to the download address.

Current version number is 'ckw-mod-0.9.0-d2'
It can be used on Windows2000/XP/Vista/7

Unfortunately all documents is written in Japanese.

Small explanations

setting
1.ckw.cfg (This file is to be placed the same directory where ckw.exe is placed)
2..Xdefaults (The place is specified by 'HOME' environmental variable )
3. command line
Priority order
3 > 2 > 1

*********
Setting file
***********
'!' means comment.

************
Command line options
***********
_short _ long option

-fg foreground
-bg background
-cr cursorColor
-cri cursorImeColor
color0-15 parette color1
-bitmap backgroundBitmap :background bmp file
-g geometry :(e.g. -g 100×50-0+0)
-fn font
-fs fontSize
-/+sh scrollHide
-/+sr scrollRight
-sl saveLines
-b internalBorder
-lsp lineSpace
-tr transp :trandparency(0-255)
-trc transpColor :color for transparcy. Effective only when -tr 255
-/+top topmost
-cd chdir
-x exec : specify shell
-tl title
-c config :sprcify config file
-e : execute command (e.g. ckw -e octave)

geometry
width x hight + position X + position Y
(- means origin is lower right.  )

********
Caution
Font size of ckw should be same as that of cmd.
********


Regards

Tatsuro

--- David Grundberg wrote:

> Tatsuro MATSUOKA skrev:
> > Hello
> >
> > --- David Grundberg wrote:
> >
> >> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> >> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
> >> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
> >> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32. Actually,
> >> just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
> >> a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
> >> should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?
> >
> > Octave on MinGW is "true win32".  Octave on MinGW32 is now working on win32 command prompt.
> > Tools like readline, ncursus etc for win32 are prepared by Benjamin.
> >
>
> Yes, I know.  I've compiled Octave on mingw myself.  I was referring to
> OctaveDE, where I wasn't as lucky.  But apparently I was wrong.
> OctaveDE can be built on mingw.  I just didn't try hard enough, or
> something.
>
> > For copy and paste, quick edit mode is useful.
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282301
> >
> > Although command prompt with quick edit mode is not useful as terminal emulator on unixy
> environments,
> > it is not necessary required for windows.
> >
>
> Yeah.  But it's still pretty terrible compared to a terminal emulator :)
>


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Re: Problems with QtOctave

tmacchant
Hello

I have forgotten to write one important point.

The mouse aided copy and paste is almost the same as that of the rxvt.
(You can also use 'Shift + insert' to paste on the prompt)
So it is very useful persons who are familiar to the rxvt.

Regards

Tatsuro

--- Tatsuro MATSUOKA  wrote:

> Hello
>
> I have found that command console wrapper software 'cmd-mod' is still developing states.
> original program is 'ckw', which is famous in Japan but the development is stopped.
> Fortunately the development seems to be continued by another person.
>
> The licence of it is
> GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 2
>
>
> http://github.com/deflis/ckw-mod
>
> Clicking 'Download' tab you can go to the download address.
>
> Current version number is 'ckw-mod-0.9.0-d2'
> It can be used on Windows2000/XP/Vista/7
>
> Unfortunately all documents is written in Japanese.
>
> Small explanations
>
> setting
> 1.ckw.cfg (This file is to be placed the same directory where ckw.exe is placed)
> 2..Xdefaults (The place is specified by 'HOME' environmental variable )
> 3. command line
> Priority order
> 3 > 2 > 1
>
> *********
> Setting file
> ***********
> '!' means comment.
>
> ************
> Command line options
> ***********
> _short _ long option
>
> -fg foreground
> -bg background
> -cr cursorColor
> -cri cursorImeColor
> color0-15 parette color1
> -bitmap backgroundBitmap :background bmp file
> -g geometry :(e.g. -g 100×50-0+0)
> -fn font
> -fs fontSize
> -/+sh scrollHide
> -/+sr scrollRight
> -sl saveLines
> -b internalBorder
> -lsp lineSpace
> -tr transp :trandparency(0-255)
> -trc transpColor :color for transparcy. Effective only when -tr 255
> -/+top topmost
> -cd chdir
> -x exec : specify shell
> -tl title
> -c config :sprcify config file
> -e : execute command (e.g. ckw -e octave)
>
> geometry
> width x hight + position X + position Y
> (- means origin is lower right.  )
>
> ********
> Caution
> Font size of ckw should be same as that of cmd.
> ********
>
>
> Regards
>
> Tatsuro
>
> --- David Grundberg wrote:
>
> > Tatsuro MATSUOKA skrev:
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > --- David Grundberg wrote:
> > >
> > >> But I think we got to have a terminal emulator and true readline
> > >> functionality.  We simply can't have a command line interface without
> > >> it.  That's doable on true posix systems, but on Windows it's probably a
> > >> lot of work.  octavede runs under cygwin, not "true" win32. Actually,
> > >> just having a glorified/themed terminal emulator on win32, even without
> > >> a visual editor/debugger, would probably do much to help.  Maybe we
> > >> should ship rxvt in the next Octave For Windows package?
> > >
> > > Octave on MinGW is "true win32".  Octave on MinGW32 is now working on win32 command prompt.
> > > Tools like readline, ncursus etc for win32 are prepared by Benjamin.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, I know.  I've compiled Octave on mingw myself.  I was referring to
> > OctaveDE, where I wasn't as lucky.  But apparently I was wrong.
> > OctaveDE can be built on mingw.  I just didn't try hard enough, or
> > something.
> >
> > > For copy and paste, quick edit mode is useful.
> > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282301
> > >
> > > Although command prompt with quick edit mode is not useful as terminal emulator on unixy
> > environments,
> > > it is not necessary required for windows.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah.  But it's still pretty terrible compared to a terminal emulator :)
> >
>
>
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> http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/gyao/
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>


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