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Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel
Hi!

I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for dynamic response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think I'll need some help from more experienced developers.

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Carnë Draug-2
On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi!
> I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN
> output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for dynamic
> response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think I'll
> need some help from more experienced developers.

Hi

I know nothing about NASTRAN files. so I can't help you there. But I
do think a slow implementation is better than no implementation at
all.

On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
notice on the file. Could you add that?

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel
Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example. Can you guide  me on that?

2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi!
> I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN
> output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for dynamic
> response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think I'll
> need some help from more experienced developers.

Hi

I know nothing about NASTRAN files. so I can't help you there. But I
do think a slow implementation is better than no implementation at
all.

On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
notice on the file. Could you add that?

Carnë



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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Carnë Draug-2
2011/9/22 B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>:

> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
>> On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN
>> > output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for
>> > dynamic
>> > response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think
>> > I'll
>> > need some help from more experienced developers.
>>
>> On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
>> notice on the file. Could you add that?
>>
> Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example. Can
> you guide  me on that?

Take a look at this from imtophat
http://octave.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/octave/trunk/octave-forge/main/image/inst/imtophat.m?revision=8208&content-type=text%2Fplain

If you want to use GPL license, just copy and paste the header from
this function (you can replace version 2 by version 3), and replace
the names and e-mail with yours. This example also shows a simple
example for help text (you can use % instead of # to preserver matlab
compatibility).

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel
pch2mat V2. 

2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
2011/9/22 B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>:
> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
>> On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN
>> > output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for
>> > dynamic
>> > response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think
>> > I'll
>> > need some help from more experienced developers.
>>
>> On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
>> notice on the file. Could you add that?
>>
> Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example. Can
> you guide  me on that?

Take a look at this from imtophat
http://octave.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/octave/trunk/octave-forge/main/image/inst/imtophat.m?revision=8208&content-type=text%2Fplain

If you want to use GPL license, just copy and paste the header from
this function (you can replace version 2 by version 3), and replace
the names and e-mail with yours. This example also shows a simple
example for help text (you can use % instead of # to preserver matlab
compatibility).

Carnë



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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel

pch2mat V2. 


2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
2011/9/22 B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>:
> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
>> On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from NASTRAN
>> > output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for
>> > dynamic
>> > response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I think
>> > I'll
>> > need some help from more experienced developers.
>>
>> On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
>> notice on the file. Could you add that?
>>
> Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example. Can
> you guide  me on that?

Take a look at this from imtophat
http://octave.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/octave/trunk/octave-forge/main/image/inst/imtophat.m?revision=8208&content-type=text%2Fplain

If you want to use GPL license, just copy and paste the header from
this function (you can replace version 2 by version 3), and replace
the names and e-mail with yours. This example also shows a simple
example for help text (you can use % instead of # to preserver matlab
compatibility).

Carnë



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\Oytun



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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Carnë Draug-2
On 23 September 2011 08:11, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
>> 2011/9/22 B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>:
>> > 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug <[hidden email]>
>> >> On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from
>> >> > NASTRAN
>> >> > output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for
>> >> > dynamic
>> >> > response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I
>> >> > think
>> >> > I'll
>> >> > need some help from more experienced developers.
>> >>
>> >> On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
>> >> notice on the file. Could you add that?
>> >>
>> > Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example.
>> > Can
>> > you guide  me on that?
>>
>> Take a look at this from imtophat
>>
>> http://octave.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/octave/trunk/octave-forge/main/image/inst/imtophat.m?revision=8208&content-type=text%2Fplain
>>
>> If you want to use GPL license, just copy and paste the header from
>> this function (you can replace version 2 by version 3), and replace
>> the names and e-mail with yours. This example also shows a simple
>> example for help text (you can use % instead of # to preserver matlab
>> compatibility).
>
> pch2mat V2.
Hi,

apologies for the late reply, I've been traveling the last few days.

I made a few changes to the file you attached, mostly aesthetic, but
also added a semi-colon and removed the 'disp' to make the function
less verbose. I'm also CC'ing Philip Nienhuis as he is the maintainer
of the IO package since it looks as the most likely place for this
function.

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

PhilipNienhuis
Carnë, Bilen (is that your first name?):

Carnë Draug wrote:

> On 23 September 2011 08:11, B. Oytun Peksel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug<[hidden email]>
>>> 2011/9/22 B. Oytun Peksel<[hidden email]>:
>>>> 2011/9/22 Carnë Draug<[hidden email]>
>>>>> On 20 September 2011 11:18, B. Oytun Peksel<[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I am trying to write a set of functions for importing data from
>>>>>> NASTRAN
>>>>>> output files. I've started with import routine for *.pch files for
>>>>>> dynamic
>>>>>> response. However it is still very slow and resource depending. I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>> need some help from more experienced developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> On a quick look at the file, I noticed you don't have a copyright
>>>>> notice on the file. Could you add that?
>>>>>
>>>> Absolutely I can if  I had some kind of template to take as an example.
>>>> Can
>>>> you guide  me on that?
>>>
>>> Take a look at this from imtophat
>>>
>>> http://octave.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/octave/trunk/octave-forge/main/image/inst/imtophat.m?revision=8208&content-type=text%2Fplain
>>>
>>> If you want to use GPL license, just copy and paste the header from
>>> this function (you can replace version 2 by version 3), and replace
>>> the names and e-mail with yours. This example also shows a simple
>>> example for help text (you can use % instead of # to preserver matlab
>>> compatibility).
>>
>> pch2mat V2.
>
> Hi,
>
> apologies for the late reply, I've been traveling the last few days.
>
> I made a few changes to the file you attached, mostly aesthetic, but
> also added a semi-colon and removed the 'disp' to make the function
> less verbose. I'm also CC'ing Philip Nienhuis as he is the maintainer
> of the IO package since it looks as the most likely place for this
> function.

? What is NASTRAN PCH ?

Inclusion in the texinfo header of a URL where some info can be found on
this subject would be really useful.
Otherwise perhaps only a fistful of persons on Earth would know what
this is all about.

Second: I noted that on ML Central the author (Bilen) posted similar code.
As on ML Central only BSD licenses are accepted, and now the code has a
GPL licence, perhaps in the header a comment should be made about dual
licensing? NB: AFAIU, BSD and GPL are not fully compliant.

Other than these two I have no objection against inclusion in the io
package. I do think the two thingies above have to be solved first.

Anyway I'll probably mark this func (and for that matter, e.g.,
object2json.m) as "miscellaneous and unmaintained" category until
there's more "pch" stuff.


As usual, for the sake of quality and neat user experience (read: to
satisfy my pickyness), I'd advice to check & if needed fix the the
following:
- Lacking error checking on the fopen() statement;
- No matching fclose() statement;
- Are you sure all lines in the file have equal length? If not, a
   cellstr array may be a better vehicle than a character array;
- There's no catch for in case "lines" becomes less or equal than 7
   in L.49, or is that no problem?

Philip

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2
2011/9/27 Philip Nienhuis <[hidden email]>:

> Second: I noted that on ML Central the author (Bilen) posted similar code.
> As on ML Central only BSD licenses are accepted, and now the code has a
> GPL licence, perhaps in the header a comment should be made about dual
> licensing? NB: AFAIU, BSD and GPL are not fully compliant.

Eh, this is not true.

BSD people sometimes like to avoid the GPL because they don't like
that it forbids further restrictions. However, the modified BSD
licenses without the ancient advertising clause and the GPL are
compatible, and you can combine them into a single work.

- Jordi G. H.

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

PhilipNienhuis
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:

> 2011/9/27 Philip Nienhuis<[hidden email]>:
>
>> Second: I noted that on ML Central the author (Bilen) posted similar code.
>> As on ML Central only BSD licenses are accepted, and now the code has a
>> GPL licence, perhaps in the header a comment should be made about dual
>> licensing? NB: AFAIU, BSD and GPL are not fully compliant.
>
> Eh, this is not true.
>
> BSD people sometimes like to avoid the GPL because they don't like
> that it forbids further restrictions. However, the modified BSD
> licenses without the ancient advertising clause and the GPL are
> compatible, and you can combine them into a single work.

Thanks for clarifying.

So, what BSD version does TMW require?
I didn't see "modified BSD" but rather "plain vanilla" BSD licenses
mentioned there. Admittedly I haven't browsed all files there. Nor would
I be able to spot the difference anyway.

Even if modified BSD & GPL are compatible, the pertinent question was
whether Bilen should either mention both licenses in his nastran .pch
function or just GPL for the one in Octave.

P.

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2
On 27 September 2011 16:10, Philip Nienhuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So, what BSD version does TMW require?

This is a bit of a history lesson, but there are a bunch of "BSD
licenses". The MIT and X licenses are sometimes also confused for the
BSD licenses, because their wording is similar. The first one had an
advertising clause. You had to prominently say "this is using
so-and-so's software" in advertising materials:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bsd_license#4-clause

> I didn't see "modified BSD" but rather "plain vanilla" BSD licenses
> mentioned there.

Almost everyone uses the modified BSD license nowadays, without the
advertising clause. It's so common that the modified license has come
to be known as the "plain vanilla BSD license".

> Even if modified BSD & GPL are compatible, the pertinent question
> was whether Bilen should either mention both licenses in his nastran
> .pch function or just GPL for the one in Octave.

Well, if Bilen wants to keep using Matlab Central, they forbid the GPL
(because The Mathworks wants to impose further restrictions, such as
their current practice of forbidding usage of Octave with software
hosted on Matlab Central). I would say it's best to let Bilen decide.
The GPL forbids further restrictions. The BSD allows restrictions. Let
Bilen decide.

- Jordi G. H.

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Carnë Draug-2
On 27 September 2011 22:22, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27 September 2011 16:10, Philip Nienhuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Even if modified BSD & GPL are compatible, the pertinent question
>> was whether Bilen should either mention both licenses in his nastran
>> .pch function or just GPL for the one in Octave.
>
> Well, if Bilen wants to keep using Matlab Central, they forbid the GPL
> (because The Mathworks wants to impose further restrictions, such as
> their current practice of forbidding usage of Octave with software
> hosted on Matlab Central). I would say it's best to let Bilen decide.
> The GPL forbids further restrictions. The BSD allows restrictions. Let
> Bilen decide.

He is the copyright owner of the file. Can't he release it several
times with as many different licenses as he wishes? He had no
copyright notice at the start and when requested, he added the
simplified BSD (which is GPL compatible and perfectly acceptable on
octave forge). I think he has already decided.

About the extra File Exchange restriction. It only relates to code
that was downloaded from there right? A version of the code is being
hosted there, but it was not downloaded from there. It was sent to us
directly. This means no problem for us as well, right?

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel
I have a very little idea about these license issue. So can you please decide for me which text to use and I'll use it. Yes I uploaded on the mathworks website but if there is a problem I can just delete my function from there since I am much more willing to contribute to an open source project. 

As for the other concerns regarding the function I'll fix them accordingly and upload it.

thanks for the help

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 September 2011 22:22, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 27 September 2011 16:10, Philip Nienhuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Even if modified BSD & GPL are compatible, the pertinent question
>> was whether Bilen should either mention both licenses in his nastran
>> .pch function or just GPL for the one in Octave.
>
> Well, if Bilen wants to keep using Matlab Central, they forbid the GPL
> (because The Mathworks wants to impose further restrictions, such as
> their current practice of forbidding usage of Octave with software
> hosted on Matlab Central). I would say it's best to let Bilen decide.
> The GPL forbids further restrictions. The BSD allows restrictions. Let
> Bilen decide.

He is the copyright owner of the file. Can't he release it several
times with as many different licenses as he wishes? He had no
copyright notice at the start and when requested, he added the
simplified BSD (which is GPL compatible and perfectly acceptable on
octave forge). I think he has already decided.

About the extra File Exchange restriction. It only relates to code
that was downloaded from there right? A version of the code is being
hosted there, but it was not downloaded from there. It was sent to us
directly. This means no problem for us as well, right?

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Carnë Draug-2
On 28 September 2011 08:39, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have a very little idea about these license issue. So can you please
> decide for me which text to use and I'll use it. Yes I uploaded on the
> mathworks website but if there is a problem I can just delete my function
> from there since I am much more willing to contribute to an open source
> project.

The problematic line is in the terms of use of MathWorks File Exchange
(http://www.mathworks.co.uk/matlabcentral/disclaimer.html). More
exactly this line

'All content contained in the MATLAB Central File Exchange may only be
used with MathWorks products.'.

The way I read it, is that one can't get stuff from there and run it
on octave. We could not go there, download the code and add it to
octave-forge (even though you had chosen a free license). However, you
have sent us the file yourself, you have the original (whatever that
means) and sent us a copy of it and another to File Exchange. But
certainly other people can read it differently and I'm in no way a
knowledgable person of legal issues.

To resume, the license you choose is not an issue, the hosting in File
Exchange is. This problem is possible because the BSD license you
chose allows the site where it is hosted to place further
restrictions. To prevent this from ever happening, you could use the
GPL license (there's probably other licenses that will also prevent
it), but then MathWorks won't allow you to have the code there.

Sorry to bother you with all this legal stuff, I know it's a pain.

Carnë

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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

B. Oytun Peksel

I'll just remove it from the mathworks website. 
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28 September 2011 08:39, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have a very little idea about these license issue. So can you please
> decide for me which text to use and I'll use it. Yes I uploaded on the
> mathworks website but if there is a problem I can just delete my function
> from there since I am much more willing to contribute to an open source
> project.

The problematic line is in the terms of use of MathWorks File Exchange
(http://www.mathworks.co.uk/matlabcentral/disclaimer.html). More
exactly this line

'All content contained in the MATLAB Central File Exchange may only be
used with MathWorks products.'.

The way I read it, is that one can't get stuff from there and run it
on octave. We could not go there, download the code and add it to
octave-forge (even though you had chosen a free license). However, you
have sent us the file yourself, you have the original (whatever that
means) and sent us a copy of it and another to File Exchange. But
certainly other people can read it differently and I'm in no way a
knowledgable person of legal issues.

To resume, the license you choose is not an issue, the hosting in File
Exchange is. This problem is possible because the BSD license you
chose allows the site where it is hosted to place further
restrictions. To prevent this from ever happening, you could use the
GPL license (there's probably other licenses that will also prevent
it), but then MathWorks won't allow you to have the code there.

Sorry to bother you with all this legal stuff, I know it's a pain.

Carnë



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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

Joe Vornehm Jr.
You don't need to do that, Oytun.  You can if you want to, but it's your code, not theirs.  Here is my attempt at an explanation (which probably only applies to the US, and anyway I am not a lawyer):

Copyright is basically the right to prohibit people from making copies, including near-copies (or other "derivative works").  You own the copyright.  (You can sell or give away the copyright, but you haven't.)  You have given people a (very permissive) license to use the code, but you still own it.  There is a distinction between owning the code's copyright (that's you) and having a license to use the code (that's everyone else).

Using software essentially involves making copies, so other people need a license from you (license = permission) in order to use your code.  The license you give them specifies the terms under which they can use it.  If they violate those terms, they no longer have a valid license, they are infringing your copyright (= making illegal copies), and you can sue them.  In the case of free software, you offer a license to anyone who wants one, without signing a contract with you first, under the terms you set (in this case, the terms of the BSD license).  Free software licenses explicitly give people permission to use, copy, and modify the code, and to distribute modified versions, sometimes with the restriction that people make the same rights available to others (= copyleft, like the GPL).  They don't give away the copyright; you still own the copyright.

The Mathworks cannot sue anyone for copyright infringement for using your code, no matter where they got it from.  It is your code, and you own the copyright.  You're the only one who can sue, because you're the only one whose rights could have been infringed.  The MATLAB Central Terms of Use govern one's use of the website, not the code.  If someone uses code from MATLAB Central with Octave, all The Mathworks can do is say he's violated the website's Terms of Use and refuse to give him access to the site, or possibly delete your code from the site (and I'm not sure they're likely to do either).

You can also give the code to whomever you choose.  You own the copyright, and nothing in the license says that you won't also license the code to other people, under the same license or a different one.  (Sometimes, in business, people sign exclusive licenses, meaning a copyright holder or patent owner gives a license to just one person or company and promises not to give a license to anyone else.  But that's not the case here.)

I hope this helps clarify the issue.  I contacted The Mathworks some time ago about that line in their Terms of Use being a in conflict with the BSD license, and they said their legal department would look into it.  Maybe it's time to follow up.

Joe V.

On 9/28/2011 10:02 AM, B. Oytun Peksel wrote:

I'll just remove it from the mathworks website. 
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Carnë Draug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28 September 2011 08:39, B. Oytun Peksel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have a very little idea about these license issue. So can you please
> decide for me which text to use and I'll use it. Yes I uploaded on the
> mathworks website but if there is a problem I can just delete my function
> from there since I am much more willing to contribute to an open source
> project.

The problematic line is in the terms of use of MathWorks File Exchange
(http://www.mathworks.co.uk/matlabcentral/disclaimer.html). More
exactly this line

'All content contained in the MATLAB Central File Exchange may only be
used with MathWorks products.'.

The way I read it, is that one can't get stuff from there and run it
on octave. We could not go there, download the code and add it to
octave-forge (even though you had chosen a free license). However, you
have sent us the file yourself, you have the original (whatever that
means) and sent us a copy of it and another to File Exchange. But
certainly other people can read it differently and I'm in no way a
knowledgable person of legal issues.

To resume, the license you choose is not an issue, the hosting in File
Exchange is. This problem is possible because the BSD license you
chose allows the site where it is hosted to place further
restrictions. To prevent this from ever happening, you could use the
GPL license (there's probably other licenses that will also prevent
it), but then MathWorks won't allow you to have the code there.

Sorry to bother you with all this legal stuff, I know it's a pain.

Carnë



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Re: Reading Nastran .pch files

PhilipNienhuis
In reply to this post by Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> On 27 September 2011 16:10, Philip Nienhuis<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> So, what BSD version does TMW require?
>
> This is a bit of a history lesson, but there are a bunch of "BSD

Thanks for the lession Jordi :-)   but it doesn't answer the question:
what version of the BSD licence does TMW want?

I agree that it is Bilen's exclusive right to decide what to do.

As far as I'm concerned he can keep it at ML Central - I was just
concerned about legal risks for Octave if his work is included in OF's
io package.
If TMW doesn't like the situation they'll probably remove it themselves.
So we can just wait and see, isn't it?

Philip

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