

c. wrote:
>
> On 11 Jul 2010, at 08:06, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> thanks for the info; for some reason, I hadn't noticed the "fixed"
>> package in my octaveforge svn tree. Maybe because it doesn't appear
>> on the sourceforge package index at
>> http://octave.sourceforge.net/packages.php?
>
> When we switched to the new individual package release system Søren
> prepared releases of most packages but skipped those that didn't work
> on his
> system. Packages that were never released do not appear on the website.
>
>> Any way to fix this?
>
> Prepare a release according to the instructions at
> < http://octave.sourceforge.net/developers.html> in the section "Make a
> release of your package and publish its function reference"
>
> c.
Yeah, I haven't done it, and I thought Soren didn't because it needed
some work to get it to build with 3.2.0.. I have the version of Octave
installed with my distribution and the development version (ie 3.0.5 and
the tip) which is why I never bother trying to fix this.. (I'm using a
netbook with a 20GB SSD disk for my developments and so having two build
trees and 3 versions of Octave takes a bit of space)
D.
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David Bateman2 wrote
> When we switched to the new individual package release system Søren
> prepared releases of most packages but skipped those that didn't work
> on his
> system. Packages that were never released do not appear on the website.
>
>> Any way to fix this?
>
> Prepare a release according to the instructions at
> < http://octave.sourceforge.net/developers.html> in the section "Make a
> release of your package and publish its function reference"
>
> c.
Yeah, I haven't done it, and I thought Soren didn't because it needed
some work to get it to build with 3.2.0.. I have the version of Octave
installed with my distribution and the development version (ie 3.0.5 and
the tip) which is why I never bother trying to fix this.. (I'm using a
netbook with a 20GB SSD disk for my developments and so having two build
trees and 3 versions of Octave takes a bit of space)
D.
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Hi all,
I am using the "fixed" package for some time now to demonstrate the effects of fixpoint coefficients and arithmetics in digital filters to my students. It seems to me that this hidden gem of the octave packages is slowly falling into oblivion as it is no longer actively maintained and hence no longer appears at octaveforge.
This is quite a pity, as this package is quite powerful in my opinion. As far as I know, there is no other open source software supporting fixpoint arithmetics. The only obvious alternative is Matlab's Fixpoint Toolbox but of course Mathworks is aware of this fact: I cannot affort to provide licenses for all of my students.
Admittedly, this package is quite complex and maybe the purpose of this package is not immediately clear. Its syntax is also incompatible to the Matlab fixpoint toolbox (as it was developed at the same time) which makes this package even more seem like a dead end. But everyone who has tried to develop a digital fixpoint filter for a microcontroller or an FPGA knows how important it is to take quantizing / truncation effects into account.
I am not a programmer but I could help rejuvenating the toolbox by providing ideas, applications, documentations and examples. I also have access to Matlab with the Fixpoint Toolbox to run comparisons.
Please don't let this package rot away in some repository.
Cheers,
Christian


On 18 April 2011 07:39, Chipmuenk < [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> David Bateman2 wrote:
>>
>>> When we switched to the new individual package release system
>>> Søren prepared releases of most packages but skipped those that
>>> didn't work on his system. Packages that were never released do
>>> not appear on the website.
>>>
>>>> Any way to fix this?
>>>
>>> Prepare a release according to the instructions at
>>> < http://octave.sourceforge.net/developers.html> in the
>>> section "Make a release of your package and publish its function
>>> reference"
>>>
>>> c. Yeah, I haven't done it, and I thought Soren didn't because it
>> needed some work to get it to build with 3.2.0.. I have the version
>> of Octave installed with my distribution and the development
>> version (ie 3.0.5 and the tip) which is why I never bother trying
>> to fix this.. (I'm using a netbook with a 20GB SSD disk for my
>> developments and so having two build trees and 3 versions of Octave
>> takes a bit of space)
> I am using the "fixed" package for some time now to demonstrate the
> effects of fixpoint coefficients and arithmetics in digital filters
> to my students.
[snip]
> I am not a programmer but I could help rejuvenating the toolbox by
> providing ideas, applications, documentations and examples. I also
> have access to Matlab with the Fixpoint Toolbox to run comparisons.
>
> Please don't let this package rot away in some repository.
Can you secure funding for its development? That's most likely to
attract a maintainer. If the package is as unique as you say, perhaps
this will look attractive in a grant proposal.
 Jordi G. H.
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Le 18 avr. 2011 à 14:39, Chipmuenk a écrit : Hi all,
I am using the "fixed" package for some time now to demonstrate the effects of fixpoint coefficients and arithmetics in digital filters to my students. It seems to me that this hidden gem of the octave packages is slowly falling into oblivion as it is no longer actively maintained and hence no longer appears at octaveforge.
Yeah I've been a bit slack. I haven't released any packages in octaveforge since octaveforge went to individual package releases and I'm not sure sure of the process. I've been confining my efforts with octave to the core functionality. Add to that that I don't need this package actually and my dev machine upped and died, I'm not sure I'm likely to do anything in the near future.
This is quite a pity, as this package is quite powerful in my opinion. As far as I know, there is no other open source software supporting fixpoint arithmetics. The only obvious alternative is Matlab's Fixpoint Toolbox but of course Mathworks is aware of this fact: I cannot affort to provide licenses for all of my students.
Not quite true. GMP supports fixed point and the matlab code is based on GMP (see http://gmplib.org/manual/). Laurent and I chose not to use GMP with the fixed point code for Octave and base it on 32 or 64 bit integers. In this way the code is much faster than the matlab code, though it can't handle large integers. The reality in communication systems is that more than 16 bits are rarely used, so frankly speed is the key here so I still think this choice was the right one.
Admittedly, this package is quite complex and maybe the purpose of this package is not immediately clear. Its syntax is also incompatible to the Matlab fixpoint toolbox (as it was developed at the same time) which makes this package even more seem like a dead end. But everyone who has tried to develop a digital fixpoint filter for a microcontroller or an FPGA knows how important it is to take quantizing / truncation effects into account.
Its not compatible as it was written before matlab released their fixed point package, if it was in parallel I might have tried to copy their interface ;). Its faster than the matlab fixed point code, so I hardly think its a dead end.
I am not a programmer but I could help rejuvenating the toolbox by providing ideas, applications, documentations and examples. I also have access to Matlab with the Fixpoint Toolbox to run comparisons.
Some Ideas I alright had were
 Adapt the code for NDArrays so more Octave code could be used with the package.  Add different overflow and rounding options. The ones that are used in the code were the ones that were used in the CMOS process I was developing for.
Frankly I don't think its a good idea to make this package matlab compatible, unless we want to use GMP as well. Please don't let this package rot away in some repository.
I'd rather it didn't and will get around to fixing it some time, as I have a certain desire to see my code used, but I can't guarantee to be quick and would be happy to see someone else get the fixed point package working with 3.4.0
David
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David Bateman2 wrote
Le 18 avr. 2011 à 14:39, Chipmuenk a écrit :
>
Not quite true. GMP supports fixed point and the matlab code is based on GMP (see http://gmplib.org/manual/). Laurent and I chose not to use GMP with the fixed point code for Octave and base it on 32 or 64 bit integers. In this way the code is much faster than the matlab code, though it can't handle large integers. The reality in communication systems is that more than 16 bits are rarely used, so frankly speed is the key here so I still think this choice was the right one.
Sorry, I wasn't aware of GMP. In my opinion (or at least for my application ;) ), FPGAmultiplier blocks define the wordlengths that are commonly used in FPGAbased signal processing. At the moment, these blocks usually have input wordlengths of 18 or 25 bits, so 32 bit integers are too small in most cases, but 64 bit should do.
David Bateman2 wrote
Its not compatible as it was written before matlab released their fixed point package, if it was in parallel I might have tried to copy their interface ;). Its faster than the matlab fixed point code, so I hardly think its a dead end.
I did not want to imply that the package is bad or slow (I like using it), I'm just afraid that a package that has "disappeared from the radar" might attract less and less users. Combine it with a completely different interface from Matlab (unfortunately, compatibility _is_ important to many users), and I think the danger of becoming extinct is for real.
David Bateman2 wrote
Some Ideas I alright had were
 Adapt the code for NDArrays so more Octave code could be used with the package.
 Add different overflow and rounding options. The ones that are used in the code were the ones that were used in the CMOS process I was developing for.
Different overflow, rounding and saturation options were also the first things that came to my mind.
David Bateman2 wrote
Frankly I don't think its a good idea to make this package matlab compatible, unless we want to use GMP as well.
Compatibility is certainly not a "must", but I think making it available via octaveforge is, and some simple DSP examples would also help (I am willing to help with the latter).
Christian


In reply to this post by Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso2
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso2 wrote
Can you secure funding for its development? That's most likely to
attract a maintainer. If the package is as unique as you say, perhaps
this will look attractive in a grant proposal.
 Jordi G. H.
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I guess I could find some funding, but most likely only for "local" work, i.e. at our university in Munich. However, I don't have the knowhow to tutor such a work. But if someone with the necessary background is interested, feel free to contact me.
Christian


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