Octave should create a forum

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Octave should create a forum

GoSim
A real forum, not like nabble which is more like a backup for a mailing list
and with a horrible user interface. I think it would be good for your
community and would increase activity with more questions and answers and
info in general.

There are free forums for example. It wouldn't work without dev support as
moderators.

There are free forums where you can just register and easily create a forum
online, I can do that if there is support. See it as a start, if there is
interest and activity an independent forum can be created.

A good example is FreeCAD which has an excellent forum with a lot of active
members. It really elevates the whole thing.



--
Sent from: https://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/Octave-General-f1599825.html


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Re: Octave should create a forum

nrjank
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 14:35 GoSim <[hidden email]> wrote:
A real forum, not like nabble which is more like a backup for a mailing list
and with a horrible user interface. I think it would be good for your
community and would increase activity with more questions and answers and
info in general.

There are free forums for example. It wouldn't work without dev support as
moderators.

There are free forums where you can just register and easily create a forum
online, I can do that if there is support. See it as a start, if there is
interest and activity an independent forum can be created.

A good example is FreeCAD which has an excellent forum with a lot of active
members. It really elevates the whole thing.


It is worth pointing out that this is a mailing list, not a forum. Nabble is not the host of this mailing list, it merely archives it and provides a user interface for those not wanting to use email to interact with the group. It even tells you when you post that it is just mailing the list on your behalf.  I.e., my list interface is gmail. The list is hosted at lists.gnu.org (see 

Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half use the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Mike Miller-4
For my part, I often do prefer modern forums like Discourse to mailing
lists.

> It is worth pointing out that this is a mailing list, not a forum. Nabble
> is not the host of this mailing list, it merely archives it and provides a
> user interface for those not wanting to use email to interact with the
> group.

Right, nabble is just a shoddy front end for the mailing lists, it's
preferable to use the mailing lists directly.

> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half use
> the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum
> plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a
> FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?

Discourse is the obvious best choice. The FSF uses it for its own
members forum, as do many other free software projects.

It's also worth mentioning that Mailman version 3 includes a web front
end that I think supports some forum-like features (but I haven't used
it).

If you really want to persuade the Octave maintainers to look into
hosting a Discourse or other forum, you should probably raise this on
the maintainers mailing list instead of the help list.

Cheers,

--
mike



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Re: Octave should create a forum

Andrew Janke-2


On 12/30/19 7:02 PM, Mike Miller wrote:

> For my part, I often do prefer modern forums like Discourse to mailing
> lists.
>
>> It is worth pointing out that this is a mailing list, not a forum. Nabble
>> is not the host of this mailing list, it merely archives it and provides a
>> user interface for those not wanting to use email to interact with the
>> group.
>
> Right, nabble is just a shoddy front end for the mailing lists, it's
> preferable to use the mailing lists directly.
>
>> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half use
>> the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum
>> plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a
>> FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?
>
> Discourse is the obvious best choice. The FSF uses it for its own
> members forum, as do many other free software projects.

FWIW, I've had decent luck using Discourse with the Mac Homebrew
project. I dunno if it'd replace much of the Octave mailing lists, but
it would be a nice alternative/complement to the freenode #octave IRC
channel, where the discussion is ephemeral, and askers often don't stick
around long enough to hear the answer to their question. On Discourse,
the question could sit around, and then askers would be notified when
there's activity on it.

Cheers,
Andrew


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Benson Muite

On 12/31/19 7:18 AM, Andrew Janke wrote:

>
> On 12/30/19 7:02 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>> For my part, I often do prefer modern forums like Discourse to mailing
>> lists.
>>
>>> It is worth pointing out that this is a mailing list, not a forum. Nabble
>>> is not the host of this mailing list, it merely archives it and provides a
>>> user interface for those not wanting to use email to interact with the
>>> group.
>> Right, nabble is just a shoddy front end for the mailing lists, it's
>> preferable to use the mailing lists directly.
>>
>>> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half use
>>> the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum
>>> plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a
>>> FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?
>> Discourse is the obvious best choice. The FSF uses it for its own
>> members forum, as do many other free software projects.
> FWIW, I've had decent luck using Discourse with the Mac Homebrew
> project. I dunno if it'd replace much of the Octave mailing lists, but
> it would be a nice alternative/complement to the freenode #octave IRC
> channel, where the discussion is ephemeral, and askers often don't stick
> around long enough to hear the answer to their question. On Discourse,
> the question could sit around, and then askers would be notified when
> there's activity on it.
Bridges (such as Matterbridge - https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge)
between IRC and other chat clients (Matrix, Mattermost, Zulip etc) can
also help with history. Notification mechanisms are very helpful.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
>


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Andrew Janke-2


On 12/31/19 12:52 AM, Benson Muite wrote:

>
> On 12/31/19 7:18 AM, Andrew Janke wrote:
>> FWIW, I've had decent luck using Discourse with the Mac Homebrew
>> project. I dunno if it'd replace much of the Octave mailing lists, but
>> it would be a nice alternative/complement to the freenode #octave IRC
>> channel, where the discussion is ephemeral, and askers often don't stick
>> around long enough to hear the answer to their question. On Discourse,
>> the question could sit around, and then askers would be notified when
>> there's activity on it.
> Bridges (such as Matterbridge - https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge)
> between IRC and other chat clients (Matrix, Mattermost, Zulip etc) can
> also help with history. Notification mechanisms are very helpful.
They're only useful if the new users who drop in to ask something use
those bridges. I've been using the Matrix IRC bridge for #octave and
it's, well, it doesn't Just Work. You have to deal with maintaining
"registered nick"s and their association with your Matrix account.

Maybe the other chat systems work better with bridges? Dunno if any of
them are Free Software, though.

Cheers,
Andrew


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Octave - General mailing list
In reply to this post by nrjank

On 30/12/2019 23:27, Nicholas Jankowski wrote:
> And I’m curious, is there a FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?

Irrelevant - especially taking into account that GPL is the most
oppressive and hypocritical "free" license out there. I.e. the main
consideration should be user convenience - not FSF dogma.


For that matter, Julia is a much better language released under real
free MIT license. The long term goal should be to forget about
Matlab/Octave language as real nightmare. The real advantages of Julia
is that when desired it can be strictly typed (this is how I develop my
code), that it's a fully fledged functional language when desired and
that "C" interface is part of the language, i.e. functions written in
"C" can be called directly from the language.

Also, because of MIT license (opposed to GPL) CUDA packages are part of
Julia universe:
https://devblogs.nvidia.com/gpu-computing-julia-programming-language/ ->
https://github.com/JuliaGPU -> https://github.com/JuliaGPU/CUDA.jl .

I have decided to develop my own new scientific calculations code in
Julia. Sometimes a package liked a one to be found in Octave universe is
missing, but other than that it's pleasant experience. And Matlab/Octave
code can be pretty easily ported to Julia.

--Sergei



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Re: Octave should create a forum

GoSim
In reply to this post by nrjank
nrjank wrote
>
> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half
> use
> the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum
> plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a
> FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?
>
>>


A forum would not primary be for the devs but for normal users. Sending a
message to a mail list of devs is almost intrusive but writing a post on a
forum is less personal and everyone is reading based on their own will, it
doesn't dimp down in your e mail. It would generate more interaction among
normal users and among them maybe you would get more devs, it could be like
an entry step. Also general interaction between users would increase, many
are experienced m-scripters and can help eachother.




--
Sent from: https://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/Octave-General-f1599825.html


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Re: Octave should create a forum

GoSim
In reply to this post by Octave - General mailing list
Octave - General mailing list wrote
> Irrelevant - especially taking into account that GPL is the most
> oppressive and hypocritical "free" license out there. I.e. the main
> consideration should be user convenience - not FSF dogma.
>
>
> --Sergei

Why is GPL oppressive and hypocritical? Maybe I agree in some cases, it only
seems to work for projects with backing from large institutions or companies
who want to share dev cost. For programs without such backing obviously
commercial licenses brings about more development of the product.
GPL needs a version where a sole developer can offer a free/open version and
a commercial version. My idea is that the free version should be completely
open to private people and the original author can use all contributions in
his commercial variant. Then people get a free/open version and the creator
get free code which he can use to target companies. Only the original author
can create commercial versions.
As it is now, without financial backing there is no reason to opening your
code even if you want your software to be free/open for private people. It's
a bad business move.



--
Sent from: https://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/Octave-General-f1599825.html


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Robert Funnell
In reply to this post by GoSim
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, GoSim wrote:

> nrjank wrote
>>
>> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half
>> use
>> the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main forum
>> plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there a
>> FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?
>>
> A forum would not primary be for the devs but for normal users. Sending a
> message to a mail list of devs is almost intrusive but writing a post on a
> forum is less personal and everyone is reading based on their own will, it
> doesn't dimp down in your e mail. It would generate more interaction among
> normal users and among them maybe you would get more devs, it could be like
> an entry step. Also general interaction between users would increase, many
> are experienced m-scripters and can help eachother.

I don't really see why a forum would generate more interaction than an
e-mail list. And if a forum post doesn't show up in my inbox, then I
won't see it.

- Robert

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Re: Octave should create a forum

marco atzeri-2
In reply to this post by nrjank
Am 30.12.2019 um 22:27 schrieb Nicholas Jankowski:

> On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 14:35 GoSim <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     A real forum, not like nabble which is more like a backup for a
>     mailing list
>     and with a horrible user interface. I think it would be good for your
>     community and would increase activity with more questions and
>     answers and
>     info in general.
>
>     There are free forums for example. It wouldn't work without dev
>     support as
>     moderators.
>
>     There are free forums where you can just register and easily create
>     a forum
>     online, I can do that if there is support. See it as a start, if
>     there is
>     interest and activity an independent forum can be created.
>
>     A good example is FreeCAD which has an excellent forum with a lot of
>     active
>     members. It really elevates the whole thing.
>
>
>
> It is worth pointing out that this is a mailing list, not a forum.
> Nabble is not the host of this mailing list, it merely archives it and
> provides a user interface for those not wanting to use email to interact
> with the group. It even tells you when you post that it is just mailing
> the list on your behalf.  I.e., my list interface is gmail. The list is
> hosted at lists.gnu.org <http://lists.gnu.org> (see
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-octave)
>
> Forums can be useful. Seems half the projects I’m with use one and half
> use the other. Other than easier code and attachment hosting is the main
> forum plus. Less flexible access is a minus.  And I’m curious, is there
> a FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?
>

I found forum time consuming and not effective if you try to follow
multiple projects or large communication flows.
Of the ~30 projects I follow as cygwin package maintainer, only one
is using forum and it is the least one as efficacy in communication
between the core team and the rest of the community.

Regards
Marco


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Francesco Potortì-3
>I found forum time consuming and not effective if you try to follow
>multiple projects or large communication flows.
>Of the ~30 projects I follow as cygwin package maintainer, only one
>is using forum and it is the least one as efficacy in communication
>between the core team and the rest of the community.

I think that a forum is good if you want to increase interaction at the
expense of time efficiency.  This makes sense if a mailing list is no
more good enough because of excessive traffic, too many threads, too
many people writing and answering.  While it seems to me that traffic on
this list has increased in the last few years, I think we are not there
yet.

--
Francesco Potortì (ricercatore)        Voice:  +39.050.621.3058
ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Skype:  wnlabisti
(gate 20, 1st floor, room C71)         Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it


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Re: Octave should create a forum

Francesco Potortì
In reply to this post by Octave - General mailing list
Nicholas Jankowski:
>> And I’m curious, is there a FSF-compliant forum out there worth using?

Sergei Steshenko:
>Irrelevant - especially taking into account that GPL is the most
>oppressive and hypocritical "free" license out there.

Happy new year to you too :)

--
Francesco Potortì (ricercatore)        Voice:  +39.050.621.3058
ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Skype:  wnlabisti
(gate 20, 1st floor, room C71)         Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it