Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Steve C. Thompson
Hi Group,

On 12 Jan 06 15:22PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I found your ... MATLAB / Octave compatibility page
>
>   http://zeidler.ucsd.edu/~sct/computer/octave_matlab.html
>
> ... Wouldn't it be better to put it on the Octave Wiki?

I've added a new page to wiki.octave.org:

  http://wiki.octave.org/wiki.pl?MatlabOctaveCompatibility

Please add to it and make corrections.  Viva wiki.octave.org.

Steve



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Bill Denney
Well, I can't edit the page, but I don't think that these are correct (for
Octave or Matlab):

     * For a logical-and, Octave can use `&' or `&&'; Matlab requires `&'.

     * For a logical-or, Octave can use `|' or `||'; Matlab requires `|'.

The '&' and '|' have different meanings.  '&&' and '||' are logical
operators, and '&' and '|' are vector operators in both matlab and octave
I thought.

Something that you can add is

You can use indexes of functions and of other types making operations like

a{1} = 1:3;
a{1}(1)

is valid in octave while in matlab you have to use something like

b = a{1}
b(1)

for similar behavior in matlab.

Bill

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Steve C. Thompson wrote:

> Hi Group,
>
> On 12 Jan 06 15:22PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I found your ... MATLAB / Octave compatibility page
>>
>>   http://zeidler.ucsd.edu/~sct/computer/octave_matlab.html
>>
>> ... Wouldn't it be better to put it on the Octave Wiki?
>
> I've added a new page to wiki.octave.org:
>
>  http://wiki.octave.org/wiki.pl?MatlabOctaveCompatibility
>
> Please add to it and make corrections.  Viva wiki.octave.org.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.
>
> Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
> How to fund new projects:  http://www.octave.org/funding.html
> Subscription information:  http://www.octave.org/archive.html
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
"Judging from last week's garbage, he had almost finished his cloning
machine design.  I only notice a few linear math errors.  This design
would just create a hologram and a bad chile con carne recipe."
"Man, you sure know your garbage!" -- The Garbage Man and Dogbert



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Steve C. Thompson
Hi Bill,

The wiki allows for distributed maintenance.  You can edit the
site by sending an email to [hidden email].
Below is the message I sent...

  | To: [hidden email]
  | Subject: Octave Wiki
  |
  | Hi,
  |
  | Please unblock me.  Below is what wiki.octave.org has displayed
  | in my browser:
  |
  | Editing not allowed for 137.110.118.180 /
  | dyn137-110-118-180.ucsd.edu: user, ip, or network is blocked.
  |
  | Thanks in advance.

Please do the same so you can edit the page.

Concerning &, &&, | and ||, you are probably right.  The items:

  * For a logical-and, Octave can use `&' or `&&';
    Matlab requires `&'.

and

  * For a logical-or, Octave can use `|' or `||';
    Matlab requires `|'.

were suggested to me from another user and I included them
assuming they were true.

Now, I don't intend to edit the wiki with things that I'm not
100% sure about; so please, asked to be unblocked and add your
contributions.

Thanks,
Steve



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Bill Denney
Unfortunately, there are two problems with that for me.  First, I
can't send mail to sourceforge because the reject mail servers
without reverse DNS (my home computer is my mail server).  Second, my IP
is dynamic, so I can't give an IP that will work for more than a couple of
days (and I don't really want to have to give them a new IP every time
that I want to edit the wiki).

So, while I realize that wikis are generally for distributed editing (I've
even setup a few of my own and for others), I cannot edit this one now,
and I don't feel like jumping through the hoops necessary to be able to
edit it.

Bill

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Steve C. Thompson wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> The wiki allows for distributed maintenance.  You can edit the
> site by sending an email to [hidden email].
> Below is the message I sent...
>
>  | To: [hidden email]
>  | Subject: Octave Wiki
>  |
>  | Hi,
>  |
>  | Please unblock me.  Below is what wiki.octave.org has displayed
>  | in my browser:
>  |
>  | Editing not allowed for 137.110.118.180 /
>  | dyn137-110-118-180.ucsd.edu: user, ip, or network is blocked.
>  |
>  | Thanks in advance.
>
> Please do the same so you can edit the page.
>
> Concerning &, &&, | and ||, you are probably right.  The items:
>
>  * For a logical-and, Octave can use `&' or `&&';
>    Matlab requires `&'.
>
> and
>
>  * For a logical-or, Octave can use `|' or `||';
>    Matlab requires `|'.
>
> were suggested to me from another user and I included them
> assuming they were true.
>
> Now, I don't intend to edit the wiki with things that I'm not
> 100% sure about; so please, asked to be unblocked and add your
> contributions.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.
>
> Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
> How to fund new projects:  http://www.octave.org/funding.html
> Subscription information:  http://www.octave.org/archive.html
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action."
   -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Quentin Spencer
Bill Denney wrote:

> Unfortunately, there are two problems with that for me.  First, I
> can't send mail to sourceforge because the reject mail servers without
> reverse DNS (my home computer is my mail server).  Second, my IP is
> dynamic, so I can't give an IP that will work for more than a couple
> of days (and I don't really want to have to give them a new IP every
> time that I want to edit the wiki).
>
> So, while I realize that wikis are generally for distributed editing
> (I've even setup a few of my own and for others), I cannot edit this
> one now, and I don't feel like jumping through the hoops necessary to
> be able to edit it.


I agree with this. I used to edit the Wiki before it was restricted due
to spam problems, but since then, I guess it wasn't ever worth it to me
to get edit permission. Apparently I'm not the only one for whom that
was a barrier to participation. I think it has unfortunately diminished
the value of the wiki because it has reduced participation. Does anyone
out there know what other wikis have done to encourage participation
while keeping the undesirables out? It seems like some sort of a
user/password system might be better than doing it by IP address--then
it would be possible for a user to log in from different computers
without getting every IP enabled individually.

-Quentin



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Etienne Grossmann

  Hi All,

Quentin, I can add a class B IP, so that, as long as you connect to the
wiki thru the same provider, it should be ok.

Bill, I've added a class B IP for you, could you check out that you
can edit?

  I agree entirely that a wiki w/ a login would be better. But I don't
see, how new users could do w/out sending a mail to at least one
current wiki maintainer.

  Cheers and thx for your contributions to the wiki,

  Etienne


On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 12:30:12AM -0600, Quentin Spencer wrote:
# Bill Denney wrote:
#
# >Unfortunately, there are two problems with that for me.  First, I
# >can't send mail to sourceforge because the reject mail servers without
# >reverse DNS (my home computer is my mail server).  Second, my IP is
# >dynamic, so I can't give an IP that will work for more than a couple
# >of days (and I don't really want to have to give them a new IP every
# >time that I want to edit the wiki).
# >
# >So, while I realize that wikis are generally for distributed editing
# >(I've even setup a few of my own and for others), I cannot edit this
# >one now, and I don't feel like jumping through the hoops necessary to
# >be able to edit it.
#
#
# I agree with this. I used to edit the Wiki before it was restricted due
# to spam problems, but since then, I guess it wasn't ever worth it to me
# to get edit permission. Apparently I'm not the only one for whom that
# was a barrier to participation. I think it has unfortunately diminished
# the value of the wiki because it has reduced participation. Does anyone
# out there know what other wikis have done to encourage participation
# while keeping the undesirables out? It seems like some sort of a
# user/password system might be better than doing it by IP address--then
# it would be possible for a user to log in from different computers
# without getting every IP enabled individually.
#
# -Quentin
#
#
#
# -------------------------------------------------------------
# Octave is freely available under the terms of the GNU GPL.
#
# Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
# How to fund new projects:  http://www.octave.org/funding.html
# Subscription information:  http://www.octave.org/archive.html
# -------------------------------------------------------------

--
Etienne Grossmann ------ http://www.cs.uky.edu/~etienne



-------------------------------------------------------------
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Octave's home on the web:  http://www.octave.org
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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Bill Denney
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Etienne Grossmann wrote:

> Quentin, I can add a class B IP, so that, as long as you connect to the
> wiki thru the same provider, it should be ok.
>
> Bill, I've added a class B IP for you, could you check out that you
> can edit?

Thanks for the help.  I'm not sure what IP you used for me.  I just got
the message "Editing not allowed for 67.97.7.16 / 67.97.7.16: user, ip, or
network is blocked."

>  I agree entirely that a wiki w/ a login would be better. But I don't
> see, how new users could do w/out sending a mail to at least one
> current wiki maintainer.

Could it be made so that new users (who register automatically through the
website) are allowed onto help pages that may be blanked from time to
time (probably generally to categorize the content onto other pages)?

Also, I noticed that you had NOFOLLOW setup on all the pages.  With this,
I also think that the system is diminished because if I understand
correctly, google will not really index the site.  Perhaps an addition to
the above suggestion would be to have nofollow on the world(ish) editable
pages all add nofollow while other pages could be indexable.

Finally, there should be all kinds of rate limiters possible to limit the
number of comments per hour and per day per IP address.  That by itself
would protect from everything but bot nets.

My thoughts are:  how does wikipedia handle such things.  They allow bots,
but they don't seem to have a major problem with large scale
vandalization.

Bill

--
"The first and last thing required of genius is the love of truth."
   -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Etienne Grossmann

  Hi Bill,

On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 06:46:51AM -0500, Bill Denney wrote:
# On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Etienne Grossmann wrote:
#
# >Quentin, I can add a class B IP, so that, as long as you connect to the
# >wiki thru the same provider, it should be ok.
# >
# >Bill, I've added a class B IP for you, could you check out that you
# >can edit?
#
# Thanks for the help.  I'm not sure what IP you used for me.  I just got
# the message "Editing not allowed for 67.97.7.16 / 67.97.7.16: user, ip, or
# network is blocked."

I added this IP (originally, I added what I think are upenn.edu
IPs). Does it work?

[snip]
# Could it be made so that new users (who register automatically through the
# website) are allowed onto help pages that may be blanked from time to
# time (probably generally to categorize the content onto other pages)?

The point of non-automatic registration is to discourage spammers/defacers
(see http://users.isr.ist.utl.pt/~etienne/wiki.pl-defaced-edited.html).

# Also, I noticed that you had NOFOLLOW setup on all the pages.  With this,
# I also think that the system is diminished because if I understand
# correctly, google will not really index the site.  Perhaps an addition to
# the above suggestion would be to have nofollow on the world(ish) editable
# pages all add nofollow while other pages could be indexable.

I just learned about these tags, so my knowledge may be lacking.
Imho, we should have FOLLOW and INDEX, right, at least when a robot is
accessing the site. I'd say the wiki script's code, below, does just
that, but I may be wrong.

======================================================================
  if (($id eq $RCName) || (T($RCName) eq $id) || (T($id) eq $RCName))
  {
    $html .= '<meta name="robots" content="INDEX,FOLLOW">';
  } elsif ($id eq '') {
    $html .= '<meta name="robots" content="NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW">';
  } else {
    $html .= '<meta name="robots" content="INDEX,NOFOLLOW">';
  }
======================================================================

If I google OctaveForGNULinux CategoryInstall, the wiki's page is
pointed to, so it seems ok. Any input on this?

# Finally, there should be all kinds of rate limiters possible to limit the
# number of comments per hour and per day per IP address.  That by itself
# would protect from everything but bot nets.

Sure, if you're willing to set it up. I myself, unfortunately, have
very little availability for this, but it would be very welcome.

# My thoughts are:  how does wikipedia handle such things.  They allow bots,
# but they don't seem to have a major problem with large scale
# vandalization.

Good point, I don't know either.

  Cheers,

  Etienne
 
# Bill
#
# --
# "The first and last thing required of genius is the love of truth."
#   -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

--
Etienne Grossmann ------ http://www.cs.uky.edu/~etienne



-------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Bill Denney
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, Etienne Grossmann wrote:

> I added this IP (originally, I added what I think are upenn.edu
> IPs). Does it work?

The one I posed a few minutes ago is my home, upenn is where I go to
school.  I will probably edit it from both locations.

> On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 06:46:51AM -0500, Bill Denney wrote:
>
> # Could it be made so that new users (who register automatically through the
> # website) are allowed onto help pages that may be blanked from time to
> # time (probably generally to categorize the content onto other pages)?
>
> The point of non-automatic registration is to discourage spammers/defacers
> (see http://users.isr.ist.utl.pt/~etienne/wiki.pl-defaced-edited.html).

Right, but if the automatically registered account was limited to pages
that used nofollow, it is of no use to a spammer.  Also, it would be
simpler to just revert a couple of pages than to look through the entire
site.

> # Also, I noticed that you had NOFOLLOW setup on all the pages.  With this,
> # I also think that the system is diminished because if I understand
> # correctly, google will not really index the site.  Perhaps an addition to
> # the above suggestion would be to have nofollow on the world(ish) editable
> # pages all add nofollow while other pages could be indexable.
>
> I just learned about these tags, so my knowledge may be lacking.
> Imho, we should have FOLLOW and INDEX, right, at least when a robot is
> accessing the site. I'd say the wiki script's code, below, does just
> that, but I may be wrong.
>
> [snip]
>
> If I google OctaveForGNULinux CategoryInstall, the wiki's page is
> pointed to, so it seems ok. Any input on this?

Sorry, it was late when I posted this I didn't check before I replied.  I
guess what I was trying to get at was that if we add noindex,nofollow to
links to external sites on world editable pages, we would prevent the
benefit of a spammer, and we would get the benefit of the world being able
to edit the site.

> # Finally, there should be all kinds of rate limiters possible to limit the
> # number of comments per hour and per day per IP address.  That by itself
> # would protect from everything but bot nets.
>
> Sure, if you're willing to set it up. I myself, unfortunately, have
> very little availability for this, but it would be very welcome.

What wiki software are you using?  I will look into it.

> # My thoughts are:  how does wikipedia handle such things.  They allow bots,
> # but they don't seem to have a major problem with large scale
> # vandalization.
>
> Good point, I don't know either.

I'll try to look into that one, too.

Bill

--
"To be pleased with one's limits is a wretched state."
   -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



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Re: MATLAB / Octave compatibility

Stéfan van der Walt
On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 07:44:26AM -0500, Bill Denney wrote:
> ># My thoughts are:  how does wikipedia handle such things.  They allow
> >bots,
> ># but they don't seem to have a major problem with large scale
> ># vandalization.
> >
> >Good point, I don't know either.
>
> I'll try to look into that one, too.

Check out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Spam

Stéfan



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