Woctave-another gui front end

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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

marco atzeri-2
On 12/21/2012 5:49 PM, George Barrick wrote:

> Re: Woctave-another gui front end
>
>                        2012.12.21.16:48:46 UT
>
> Hey guys,
>
>        I'd like to second Maynard's comment.
> I've found GNU Octave to be massively useful,
> and I really appreciate the work that John,
> Jordi and others have put into it.  I am not
> a programmer/developer, but I also do not mind
> reading to get myself oriented, and I really
> like the conceptual simplicity of a text-based
> interface.  The GUI _should_ be optional!

it is already designed like that.
On dev tree, there are currently two binaries
on for GUI and one for CLI (command line interface)

>
>        Three cheers for the GNU Octave team,
> and a blessed holiday to you all!
>
> George                gbarrick_at_walsh_dot_edu
>

Regards
Marco

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Re: post-moderating this list

Sergei Steshenko
In reply to this post by Montgomery-Smith, Stephen




----- Original Message -----

> From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>
> On 12/21/12 09:46, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Francesco Potortì <[hidden email]>
>>>  To: Octave users list <[hidden email]>
>>>  Cc:
>>>  Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:13 PM
>>>  Subject: post-moderating this list
>>>
>>>  I'll try to make this a more structured proposal.
>>>
>>>  In the last years, traffic on this least has increased, which is a good
>>>  sign.  However, discussions who used to be focused on Octave with very
>>>  rare off-topic threads are now often becoming tit-for-tats, annoying to
>>>  most of us and time-consuming for the developers.
>>>
>>>  I propose to introduce post-moderation.
>>>
>>>  For example, this can be implemented by having three post-moderators.
>>>  If two of three agree and the third one does not veto, a poster who
> goes
>>>  off-track or who indulges in Octave or free software bashing will be
>>>  gently and privately invited to stop after few offending posts.  If the
>>>  poster's behaviour does not change after the second warning, the
>>>  moderators will propose a one-month ban of the poster to the list
>>>  owners.
>>>
>>>  I volunteer to be one of the three moderators, or even a moderator for
>>>  some variation of the above proposal.
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Francesco Potortì (ricercatore)        Voice:  +39.050.315.3058
> (op.2111)
>>>  ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
>>>  via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Skype:  wnlabisti
>>>  (entrance 20, 1st floor, room C71)     Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it
>>
>>
>>  Your proposal is _very_ consistent with authoritarian guru-controlled
> structures behavior. From the link I recently posted:
>>
>>
> http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-29/ayn-rand-was-not-libertarian :
>>
>>  "
>>  In a development eerily reminiscent of the organized hatred directed
>>  against the arch-heretic Emanuel Goldstein in Orwell’s 1984, Rand cultists
> were required to sign a loyalty oath to Rand; essential to the loyalty oath was
> a declaration that the signer would henceforthnever read any future works of the
> apostate and arch-heretic Branden [Rand's number 2]. After the split, any
> Rand cultist seen carrying a
>>  book or writing by Branden was promptly excommunicated.
>>  "
>>
>>  - the "excommunicated" is/means banned.
>>
>>
>>  And from http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>>
>>  "
>>  People whose power is based on the surrender of others
>>  develop a repertoire of techniques for deflecting and undermining
>>  anything that questions or challenges their status, behavior,
>>  or beliefs. They ridicule or try to confuse people who ask challenging
>>  questions.” (p.66)
>>  "
>>
>>  - yes, the status and _behavior_ (e.g. a burst of GPL propaganda instead of
> addressing the real problems) _is_ challenged, and you _react_ to this
> challenge.
>>
>>
>>  I have a much more general and far going proposal.
>>
>>  I suggest to intensify work on GPL4, and the very first freedom granted by
> the license should be the obligation of GPL4 SW users to send to FSF and GNU a
> notary signed pledge of allegiance in support of FSF/GNU/GPL cause.
>>
>>  GPL4 should also grant unlimited discretionary irrevocable freedom to list
> owners to decide who violates the pledge of allegiance.
>>
>>
>>  Regards,
>>     Sergei.
>
> Hi Sergei,
>
> This is the octave-help mailing list.  It should be a place where people
> ask technical questions about how to get octave to work properly in
> their environment.  It should be a friendly place, something like the
> front desk of a car mechanics shop.  You should feel greeted by friendly
> people, with good people skills.  The grumpy mechanics, who might
> otherwise be very talented, should be relegated to the back room.  We
> should recognize that while they may be very important, and in some
> cases do much of the real work, nevertheless they should not be in the
> front office greeting customers.
>
> Sergei - I do find a lot of your posts actually quite interesting.  But
> let me suggest that octave-help is not the place to make your opinions
> known.  Or rather, it is OK to make your opinions known, but maybe one
> or two times is enough.
>
> There are forums where people can argue about things like the legitimacy
> of GPL licenses, and whether it is really free or not.  And your
> comments about the inadequacies of the American education system have a
> lot of merit.
>
> But, please, let the octave-help people go.  If nothing else, just as a
> matter of courtesy.  Just so that they can give and receive friendly and
> helpful advice without a huge amount of noise in the background.
>
> If this mailing list decides to ban people from the list for repetitive
> obnoxious behavior, I have no problem with that.  If this were an
> opinion group I would feel very differently, and I would defend your
> right to state your points, even if I greatly disagreed with you.  But
> this is not an opinion forum.  It is a help forum.
>
> Best regards,
> Stephen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-octave mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/help-octave
>


It is the Octave developers - _not_ me, who "great" users with GPL propaganda  and not friendly suggestions.

So, whom are you preaching to ?

And I am seriously thinking of exposing what the "leading" Octave developer is saying "behind the closed doors" - to show "friendliness" and real subversion of the very principles of FOSS movement.


So, if the propaganda stops, opposition to it will stop too.


Regards,
  Sergei.

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Re: post-moderating this list

Dimitri Maziuk
On 12/21/2012 11:49 AM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>
> So, if the propaganda stops, opposition to it will stop too.
>

You got it backwards: the proper quote is "the beatings will continue
until morale improves".

HTH,
Dima


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Re: post-moderating this list

marco atzeri-2
In reply to this post by Francesco Potortì
On 12/21/2012 2:13 PM, Francesco Potortì wrote:

> I'll try to make this a more structured proposal.
>
> In the last years, traffic on this least has increased, which is a good
> sign.  However, discussions who used to be focused on Octave with very
> rare off-topic threads are now often becoming tit-for-tats, annoying to
> most of us and time-consuming for the developers.
>
> I propose to introduce post-moderation.
>
> For example, this can be implemented by having three post-moderators.
> If two of three agree and the third one does not veto, a poster who goes
> off-track or who indulges in Octave or free software bashing will be
> gently and privately invited to stop after few offending posts.  If the
> poster's behaviour does not change after the second warning, the
> moderators will propose a one-month ban of the poster to the list
> owners.
>
> I volunteer to be one of the three moderators, or even a moderator for
> some variation of the above proposal.
>

acceptable for me.

The noise to signal ration of the help list is far too high
  in latest months

Regards
Marco

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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

Ron.Simonson
In reply to this post by Maynard Wright
On 12/20/2012 08:55 PM, Maynard Wright wrote:

>
> Like most folks, I suppose that I don't say very much until there is
> something to be concerned about. In the interest of correcting that, I
> will say that Octave has been very valuable to me and I much appreciate
> the efforts of those who have made it available.
>
> Maynard Wright
>

I too find octave to be a very valuable tool for work and play.  I use
it daily.  I very much appreciate all the hard work that has gone into
creating it and to a large list of contributors to this list.  I learn
a lot by reading many of the posts here.

Thanks to all of you.  Ron.

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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

edmund ronald
Maybe Eclipse is the way to go for an IDE - it is industrial strength,
supposed to be platform agnostic and language agnostic, and has a
large community of users many of whom are corporate.

Edmund
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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

edmund ronald
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/tutorials/os-eclipse-octave/section2.html

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM, edmund ronald <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Maybe Eclipse is the way to go for an IDE - it is industrial strength,
> supposed to be platform agnostic and language agnostic, and has a
> large community of users many of whom are corporate.
>
> Edmund
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Re: post-moderating this list

Montgomery-Smith, Stephen
In reply to this post by Sergei Steshenko
On 12/21/2012 11:49 AM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 7:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>>
>> On 12/21/12 09:46, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: Francesco Potortì <[hidden email]>
>>>>  To: Octave users list <[hidden email]>
>>>>  Cc:
>>>>  Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:13 PM
>>>>  Subject: post-moderating this list
>>>>
>>>>  I'll try to make this a more structured proposal.
>>>>
>>>>  In the last years, traffic on this least has increased, which is a good
>>>>  sign.  However, discussions who used to be focused on Octave with very
>>>>  rare off-topic threads are now often becoming tit-for-tats, annoying to
>>>>  most of us and time-consuming for the developers.
>>>>
>>>>  I propose to introduce post-moderation.
>>>>
>>>>  For example, this can be implemented by having three post-moderators.
>>>>  If two of three agree and the third one does not veto, a poster who
>> goes
>>>>  off-track or who indulges in Octave or free software bashing will be
>>>>  gently and privately invited to stop after few offending posts.  If the
>>>>  poster's behaviour does not change after the second warning, the
>>>>  moderators will propose a one-month ban of the poster to the list
>>>>  owners.
>>>>
>>>>  I volunteer to be one of the three moderators, or even a moderator for
>>>>  some variation of the above proposal.
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Francesco Potortì (ricercatore)        Voice:  +39.050.315.3058
>> (op.2111)
>>>>  ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
>>>>  via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Skype:  wnlabisti
>>>>  (entrance 20, 1st floor, room C71)     Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it
>>>
>>>
>>>  Your proposal is _very_ consistent with authoritarian guru-controlled
>> structures behavior. From the link I recently posted:
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-29/ayn-rand-was-not-libertarian :
>>>
>>>  "
>>>  In a development eerily reminiscent of the organized hatred directed
>>>  against the arch-heretic Emanuel Goldstein in Orwell’s 1984, Rand cultists
>> were required to sign a loyalty oath to Rand; essential to the loyalty oath was
>> a declaration that the signer would henceforthnever read any future works of the
>> apostate and arch-heretic Branden [Rand's number 2]. After the split, any
>> Rand cultist seen carrying a
>>>  book or writing by Branden was promptly excommunicated.
>>>  "
>>>
>>>  - the "excommunicated" is/means banned.
>>>
>>>
>>>  And from http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=250 :
>>>
>>>  "
>>>  People whose power is based on the surrender of others
>>>  develop a repertoire of techniques for deflecting and undermining
>>>  anything that questions or challenges their status, behavior,
>>>  or beliefs. They ridicule or try to confuse people who ask challenging
>>>  questions.” (p.66)
>>>  "
>>>
>>>  - yes, the status and _behavior_ (e.g. a burst of GPL propaganda instead of
>> addressing the real problems) _is_ challenged, and you _react_ to this
>> challenge.
>>>
>>>
>>>  I have a much more general and far going proposal.
>>>
>>>  I suggest to intensify work on GPL4, and the very first freedom granted by
>> the license should be the obligation of GPL4 SW users to send to FSF and GNU a
>> notary signed pledge of allegiance in support of FSF/GNU/GPL cause.
>>>
>>>  GPL4 should also grant unlimited discretionary irrevocable freedom to list
>> owners to decide who violates the pledge of allegiance.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>>     Sergei.
>>
>> Hi Sergei,
>>
>> This is the octave-help mailing list.  It should be a place where people
>> ask technical questions about how to get octave to work properly in
>> their environment.  It should be a friendly place, something like the
>> front desk of a car mechanics shop.  You should feel greeted by friendly
>> people, with good people skills.  The grumpy mechanics, who might
>> otherwise be very talented, should be relegated to the back room.  We
>> should recognize that while they may be very important, and in some
>> cases do much of the real work, nevertheless they should not be in the
>> front office greeting customers.
>>
>> Sergei - I do find a lot of your posts actually quite interesting.  But
>> let me suggest that octave-help is not the place to make your opinions
>> known.  Or rather, it is OK to make your opinions known, but maybe one
>> or two times is enough.
>>
>> There are forums where people can argue about things like the legitimacy
>> of GPL licenses, and whether it is really free or not.  And your
>> comments about the inadequacies of the American education system have a
>> lot of merit.
>>
>> But, please, let the octave-help people go.  If nothing else, just as a
>> matter of courtesy.  Just so that they can give and receive friendly and
>> helpful advice without a huge amount of noise in the background.
>>
>> If this mailing list decides to ban people from the list for repetitive
>> obnoxious behavior, I have no problem with that.  If this were an
>> opinion group I would feel very differently, and I would defend your
>> right to state your points, even if I greatly disagreed with you.  But
>> this is not an opinion forum.  It is a help forum.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Stephen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Help-octave mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/help-octave
>>
>
>
> It is the Octave developers - _not_ me, who "great" users with GPL propaganda  and not friendly suggestions.
>
> So, whom are you preaching to ?
>
> And I am seriously thinking of exposing what the "leading" Octave developer is saying "behind the closed doors" - to show "friendliness" and real subversion of the very principles of FOSS movement.
>
>
> So, if the propaganda stops, opposition to it will stop too.

No, I think you have it slightly wrong.  Let me explain it this way.

I am a college professor, and as such I am surrounded by liberals.  But
I am a Republican.  Similarly, a friend of mine works as a secretary in
a church where the majority of the membership and leadership is
Republican, but she is a Democrat.

Both of us are constantly bombarded by viewpoints that we disagree with.
 But this is not people propagandizing me.  It is just people being
themselves.  I could challenge everyone who says something that exposes
a liberal bias.  But in the end it would ruin the work environment.  So
what I do is tell people, once in a while, where my political values
are.  But I make sure that I don't try to push my views in times and
places where it would create undue friction.

Octave, as best I can tell, is a GPL environment.  A bunch of people,
most of whom like the values espoused by Richard Stallman, got together
and developed a software project called Octave.  You similarly have the
right to work with another group of friends and develop similar software
using a WTFYW license.

What you are doing is kind of like going into their living room, where
they are discussing (a) the technicalities of their project, and (b) how
much they like their view of what free software licenses should be, and
interrupting them every-time they make a statement that reveals their
pro-GPL bias.

Is it wrong for you to do this?  That is debatable.  If the living room
is their private property, one could argue you don't have the right to
do this.  So perhaps in the same way, the owner of this mailing list has
the right to ban you.

But is it rude for you to do this?  Most definitely.  It's their living
room!

Look, I don't have a horse in the race.  I don't know who you are
referring to as the "leading developer", but I can tell you that I am
not a leading developer of octave.  I'm not even a trailing developer of
octave.  I am an occasional user of octave, who has been on this mailing
list for about a month.  I am so lacking in knowledge in octave, that
when I wrote above that this is a GPL club, I am not even sure if I am
being accurate.  Years ago I did submit a tiny bug fix to octave, and I
do try to maintain the octave-forge packages for FreeBSD.  But that is
about it.

Please try to ignore the GPL propaganda.  Please try to show respect for
the cultural values in this mailing list.  I am not asking you to agree
with these values.  And I am not asking you to cease arguing your case
in other forums.

Stephen
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Re: post-moderating this list

Sergei Steshenko
In reply to this post by Dimitri Maziuk




----- Original Message -----

> From: Dimitri Maziuk <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>
> On 12/21/2012 11:49 AM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>>
>>  So, if the propaganda stops, opposition to it will stop too.
>>
>
> You got it backwards: the proper quote is "the beatings will continue
> until morale improves".
>
> HTH,
> Dima
>

What you are saying sound about right/truth; I'm just wondering whose morale you mean.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morale :

"
Morale (also known as esprit de corps) is the
capacity of a group's members to maintain belief in an institution or
goal, particularly in the face of opposition or hardship
".

So, do you mean the moderators are to continue the beatings until indoctrination is accepted without any opposition ?

Or the opposite - the numerically larger group us users will be _patiently_ explaining the moderators that indoctrination does not necessarily "fly" ?

Thanks,
  Sergei.

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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

Przemek Klosowski-7
In reply to this post by Sergei Steshenko

> So, if Octave developers want to attract more users, instead of
> scaring them to death with GPL and its strings attached better
> explain them how Octave can use there problems _despite_ strings
> attached to GPL.
>
> And the _very_ first explanation should when it is allowed to link
> with non-free SW.

Sergei, you should know as well as I that the biggest problem with rigid
ideologies is that they ignore reality, which always ends up badly. You
have to be careful, however, that the opposite of ideology does not
become another ideology.

You seem to equate freedom with rejecting the constrictions of GPL, but
the empirical truth is that GPL has an excellent track record in
providing useful technology, while alternatives that you consider truly
'free' infrequently but persistently revert to proprietary and/or
frustrating arrangements. A couple of examples off the top of my head:
Linux kernel with closed video or wireless drivers; ghostscript with its
advanced closed/proprietary enhancements; Evolution with Exchange
plugins, and a whole bunch of 'seemingly free but with strings attached'
scientific software, in the way of METIS. Often such non-free links not
only affect the original free base, but hurt the entire project, by
introducing confusion, fragility and duplication of effort.

You see your opponents as ideologues, but you need to consider a
practical side to their argument---GPL is good at preventing such poor
outcomes.

Finally, there's a very useful Boy Scout motto: "Leave it better than
you found it". It applies to software, and also to mailing list
discussions. My biggest problem with the recent traffic is that it
didn't stand up to that high standard; I wish people would ask
themselves before posting whether they have something novel and
interesting to say, or whether it'll be just a repetitive go-around, or,
worse, an ego-stroker at the expense of someone else. Did I satisfy my
own criteria? I am not sure---so I will stop right here, then.
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Re: post-moderating this list

Dimitri Maziuk
In reply to this post by Sergei Steshenko
On 12/21/2012 1:05 PM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:

> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morale :
...

Ah, the wiki of the thousand lies strikes again.

If you google for it, a lot of hits reference the wiki, but

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_beatings_will_continue_until_morale_improves

has a redirect to the one you quoted. Unless you add "&redirect=no" to
the URL -- in which case you get a zero content page.

So all those references are now null and void and people who quote
wikipedia in their writings are Making Sh*t Up(tm).

Thank Google for caches:

... More importantly, the phrase is used sarcastically to indicate the
counterproductive nature of such punishment or excessive control over
subordinates such as staff in the workplace or children living at home.

Dima

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Re: post-moderating this list

edmund ronald
In reply to this post by Sergei Steshenko
why not just put [LICENSE] or [FLAME] or [BUG] or [HELP] in the subject line?

Edmund

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dimitri Maziuk <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 7:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>>
>> On 12/21/2012 11:49 AM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>>>
>>>  So, if the propaganda stops, opposition to it will stop too.
>>>
>>
>> You got it backwards: the proper quote is "the beatings will continue
>> until morale improves".
>>
>> HTH,
>> Dima
>>
>
> What you are saying sound about right/truth; I'm just wondering whose morale you mean.
>
> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morale :
>
> "
> Morale (also known as esprit de corps) is the
> capacity of a group's members to maintain belief in an institution or
> goal, particularly in the face of opposition or hardship
> ".
>
> So, do you mean the moderators are to continue the beatings until indoctrination is accepted without any opposition ?
>
> Or the opposite - the numerically larger group us users will be _patiently_ explaining the moderators that indoctrination does not necessarily "fly" ?
>
> Thanks,
>   Sergei.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-octave mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/help-octave
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Re: post-moderating this list

Freddy Omar López Quintero
Why are we again discussing about philosophies and language traps? 

Vote. I vote for the list moderation.

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Re: post-moderating this list

Montgomery-Smith, Stephen
In reply to this post by edmund ronald
On 12/21/2012 02:20 PM, edmund ronald wrote:
> why not just put [LICENSE] or [FLAME] or [BUG] or [HELP] in the subject line?

This is an excellent idea.  I was part of a local Linux users group, and
some of us liked to argue politics and religion on our "discussion"
mailing list.  (I mean, we really did enjoy it!)  So after other people
got fed up, we agreed to voluntarily put [POLITICS] or [RELIGION] into
our subject lines.  That way I could argue with my friends at length,
and those who wanted to stay out of it could easily avoid us.  It really
did work, but it did require people to be responsible.

(Unfortunately our mail list server was used for "unauthorized
activities" and the university took us off line.  We started a google
group, but for some reason it never gets used.)
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Re: post-moderating this list

Sergei Steshenko
In reply to this post by Dimitri Maziuk




----- Original Message -----

> From: Dimitri Maziuk <[hidden email]>
> To: Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>
> On 12/21/2012 1:05 PM, Sergei Steshenko wrote:
>
>>  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morale :
> ...
>
> Ah, the wiki of the thousand lies strikes again.
>
> If you google for it, a lot of hits reference the wiki, but
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_beatings_will_continue_until_morale_improves
>
> has a redirect to the one you quoted. Unless you add
> "&redirect=no" to the URL -- in which case you get a zero content
> page.
>
> So all those references are now null and void and people who quote wikipedia in
> their writings are Making Sh*t Up(tm).
>
> Thank Google for caches:
>
> ... More importantly, the phrase is used sarcastically to indicate the
> counterproductive nature of such punishment or excessive control over
> subordinates such as staff in the workplace or children living at home.
>
> Dima
>

I didn't google for it, I duckduckgo'ed for it :).

Regarding "counterproductive nature" - according to the book I've mentioned ("The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power", http://www.amazon.com/The-Guru-Papers-Masks-Authoritarian/dp/1883319005 ) gurus use these techniques quite successfully - exactly because there is a substantial amount of people ready to surrender (part of) their freedom to them.


OTOH, you as well as I very well know a Russian idiom: "За одного битого двух небитых дают" -> one already beaten up is worth two not yet beaten up.

I think the idiom is quite related to what you are talking about :).

Regards,
  Sergei.
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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

c.-2
In reply to this post by edmund ronald

On 21 Dec 2012, at 19:49, edmund ronald wrote:

> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/tutorials/os-eclipse-octave/section2.html
That looks amazing! why not add a link to tha here: http://wiki.octave.org/GNU_Octave_Wiki?section=7#Editors_.26_Octave ?
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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

edmund ronald
In fact I found Octlipse
http://sourceforge.net/projects/octclipse/

The nice thing about Eclipse is that it is commercially maintained so
it will keep on working for the forseeable future. I would recommend
we check that the Mac OS X version can be made to work, that it plots
ok, and then adopt it is the "official" IDE, which will leave is free
to focus on the more important GUI builder, which might itself profit
from the fact that Java is known to be present.

Edmund

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:32 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 21 Dec 2012, at 19:49, edmund ronald wrote:
>
>> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/tutorials/os-eclipse-octave/section2.html
> That looks amazing! why not add a link to tha here: http://wiki.octave.org/GNU_Octave_Wiki?section=7#Editors_.26_Octave ?
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Re: Woctave-another gui front end

nrjank
In reply to this post by c.-2
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM, c. <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 21 Dec 2012, at 19:49, edmund ronald wrote:

> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/tutorials/os-eclipse-octave/section2.html
That looks amazing! why not add a link to tha here: http://wiki.octave.org/GNU_Octave_Wiki?section=7#Editors_.26_Octave ?


As someone recently told, me:  It's a Wiki, go right ahead!


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Re: post-moderating this list

Sergei Steshenko
In reply to this post by Freddy Omar López Quintero


>________________________________
> From: Freddy López <[hidden email]>
>To: edmund ronald <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:25 PM
>Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>
>
>Why are we again discussing about philosophies and language traps? 
>
>
>Vote. I vote for the list moderation.
>
>
I think you've forgotten how it happened.

Jordi jumped out of ambush and started saying utter nonsense about METIS calling it non-open source despite the _fact_ that METIS is source is _freely_ (one doesn't have to pay and doesn't have to accept EULA) downloading.

Then another Octave developer suggests to introduce post-moderation.

This is _hypocrisy_ and false flag attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag :

"
Covert military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities may be described as being carried out under a false flag or black flag. Operations carried during peace-time by civilian organisation, as well as covert government agencies, may by extension be called false flag operations if they seek to hide the real organisation behind an operation.
".

It is the _developers_ who attack Octave users with incessant GPL propaganda.

"A fish rots from the head down" ( http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fish-rot-from-the-head-down.html ).

"We have met the enemy... and he is us" ( http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm ).

If/when the _developers_ start their incessant propaganda, there will be no need to moderate _them_.

Regards,
  Sergei.

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Re: post-moderating this list

bpabbott
Administrator
On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

________________________________
From: Freddy López <[hidden email]>
To: edmund ronald <[hidden email]>
Cc: Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: post-moderating this list


Why are we again discussing about philosophies and language traps? 


Vote. I vote for the list moderation.


I think you've forgotten how it happened.

Jordi jumped out of ambush and started saying utter nonsense about METIS calling it non-open source despite the _fact_ that METIS is source is _freely_ (one doesn't have to pay and doesn't have to accept EULA) downloading.

Assuming the standard definition, METIS is *not* "Open Source"


And may not be linked to Octave and then distributed without violating Octave's GPL license.  For individual use you are free to use both METIS  and Octave's source code as you like.

Ben

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