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Re: post-moderating this list

nrjank
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]> wrote:


>________________________________
> From: Freddy López <[hidden email]>
>To: edmund ronald <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:25 PM
>Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>
>
>Why are we again discussing about philosophies and language traps? 
>
>
>Vote. I vote for the list moderation.
>
>
I think you've forgotten how it happened.

Jordi jumped out of ambush and started saying utter nonsense about METIS calling it non-open source despite the _fact_ that METIS is source is _freely_ (one doesn't have to pay and doesn't have to accept EULA) downloading.

Then another Octave developer suggests to introduce post-moderation.

This is _hypocrisy_ and false flag attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag :

"
Covert military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities may be described as being carried out under a false flag or black flag. Operations carried during peace-time by civilian organisation, as well as covert government agencies, may by extension be called false flag operations if they seek to hide the real organisation behind an operation.
".

It is the _developers_ who attack Octave users with incessant GPL propaganda.

"A fish rots from the head down" ( http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fish-rot-from-the-head-down.html ).

"We have met the enemy... and he is us" ( http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm ).

If/when the _developers_ start their incessant propaganda, there will be no need to moderate _them_.

Regards,
  Sergei.


I think no one forgot how it happened, I think many are just wondering why it's still going on. Or put more succinctly:
http://xkcd.com/386/

At some point, someone has to be the bigger person by allowing someone else to have had the last word.  seems that wasn't me this time.

Nick J.

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Re: post-moderating this list

Montgomery-Smith, Stephen
In reply to this post by bpabbott
On 12/21/2012 08:34 PM, Benjamin Abbott wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> ________________________________
>>> From: Freddy López <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> To: edmund ronald <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Cc: Sergei Steshenko <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>; "[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: post-moderating this list
>>>
>>>
>>> Why are we again discussing about philosophies and language traps?
>>>
>>>
>>> Vote. I vote for the list moderation.
>>>
>>>
>> I think you've forgotten how it happened.
>>
>> Jordi jumped out of ambush and started saying utter nonsense about
>> METIS calling it non-open source despite the _fact_ that METIS is
>> source is _freely_ (one doesn't have to pay and doesn't have to accept
>> EULA) downloading.
>
> Assuming the standard definition, METIS is *not* "Open Source"
>
> http://opensource.org/docs/osd
>
> And may not be linked to Octave and then distributed without violating
> Octave's GPL license.  For individual use you are free to use both METIS
>  and Octave's source code as you like.
>
> Ben


Ben, didn't you already say this to Sergei a few days ago?  Why tell him
again when he obviously didn't get it the first time?

People, if you want this stuff to cease on octave-help, I highly
recommend you stop feeding the trolls.

I have seen this work on other mailing lists.  In fact, on one mailing
list I was on, one person took it upon himself to email everyone who
replied to this kind of stuff with a single sentence "stop feeding the
trolls."

Stephen
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Re: post-moderating this list

John W. Eaton
Administrator
In reply to this post by Sergei Steshenko
Sergei,

Jordi is the moderator of this list.  He would have banned you but I
asked him to not do that since you can sometimes be helpful.  But
these latest rants from you are too much for even me.  As others have
politely tried to tell you, this is not your forum and you don't get
to post whatever you want here.  There are many other places for that.
I really don't want to have to ban you from the list and for now I
haven't done that.  But I have set the moderation flag for your
subscription.  I'll happily approve messages from you if they are on
topic and not abusive or written with a condescending tone.

jwe
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Re: post-moderating this list

Matt Nicholas


On 12/22/12 12:13 AM, John W. Eaton wrote:
> But I have set the moderation flag for your subscription.  I'll happily approve messages from you if they are on
> topic and not abusive or written with a condescending tone.
Much like Stephen wrote earlier, I also have no horse in this race. I
continue subscribing to this list because I occasionally find it
interesting/helpful, and I occasionally try to help if I see a problem
with no response that I think I know how to solve. I certainly came here
for technical help, not to argue over the definitions of "free"; some of
the recent discussions have clearly gotten out of hand. I just want to
point a few things, as a relative outsider.

1) The needling between Sergei and others frequently goes *both ways*,
and he is certainly not the only one guilty of condescension, hyperbole,
or ad hominem attacks. I can recall at least one example of a perfectly
on-topic message of his being met with a rather unfriendly response,
which I believe was also factually incorrect (moderating his account
alone seems unreasonable to me, FWIW, though I do not mean this as an
endorsement of all of his messages). This sort of positive feedback of
negativity can  be eliminated if *either side* is willing to take the
moral high ground (added bonus: the person who quits first wastes less
of his life flaming the email list...I am about to take my own advice on
this one). Similarly, the cycle will be less likely to begin if everyone
agrees to be on 'best behavior' from the outset.

2) list moderation is generally best done by someone who has little at
stake, and is able to follow #1 (no I am not volunteering :D).

3) The 'off-topic' conversations are often interesting, and provide
helpful information related to a variety of technical issues (e.g.
alternative software) provided by people on both sides of the issues.
Prohibiting such arguments (and arguments in general) makes the list
less useful. The simple solution is that these topics should simply be
broken off into separate threads as appropriate (this was basically
suggested already), e.g. "GPL sucks (was: matrix multiplication
error)".  This keeps the information better organized for archiving
purposes, does not hijack the original thread, and allows those who are
not interested to simply delete the 'offending' messages.




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